Property? that noone seems to know who owns it!

Hi everyone just wanted to know what is a TAX SALE ?

Mr.Kitchen had said something about Tax Sale

been trying to get some one to help me understand to whom i can go and try to buy this land beside my property gone to the city, went to the county appraisal office ,then i went to title co. and those 2 empty lots do not belong to no one , there not being taxed by the city ,school,nor the county ,but they are there !

we have been taking care of them for 20 plus years ,and when i went to ask the city that if they were interest in selling ??? They said Those lots are yours!! but i don`t have proof , my deed of my property doesn`t add to what the size of those 2 empty lots and with my property,,, don`t make sense.

sure would appreciate your replys ,, thank you TEXAS LADY

Texas Lady,

Put a fence around those lots and start paying taxes on them. That's what I would do.

Clint Liles

Everything in this world belongs to someone. Sometimes when government entities transfer property between themselves and others, mistakes are made. This can lead to an orphan property. Eventually, these mistakes are cleared up.

I suggest you go to a title company and pay for a search. You may be surprised.

I agree with Clint. I have done that here in Oklahoma and now have title.

There are various statutory requirements to satisfy adverse possession in Texas. Putting a fence around it and paying taxes wouldn't give her immediate legal title to the lots. She would need to satisfy the statutory requirements.

Interesting reading: http://lonestarlandlaw.com/Adverse.html

It may be cheaper and easier to just do a title search and then buy the property. If the owner was not interested in the property they might be anxious to divest themselves of it.

Those lots may be tax exempt properties, or perhaps someone is paying taxes on them. Very little property escapes the tax man.

Don't invest a lot of money on them until you get a clear title.

Texas Lady:

If I were faced with your situation, I would contact the office of the Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts since their department has a section which deals with unclaimed property. Describe the property in question by giving GPS coordinates of the property which could be easily identified on a map. I believe that someone in this agency will be able to help or direct you to the correct source for an answer to your question.

Mr. Gill i already paid the Title Co. for a title search they went back to 1926 and didn`t find no one and they are not recorded on file at the county or city files so nobody is paying taxes on them. They do know where the lots are beside ours, but they are not on file or recorded!

so can the city agree to give them to us or should i just fence it? like i said before every one thought they were ours already

This is kind of personal for me. I have properties in Texas that I have not laid eyes on for about then years or so.

I just make sure the taxes are paid and some document, a lease or easement or some other legal document gets recorded every year or so.

Also, a legal publication in a legal advertising newspaper ever so often saying that such property is the sole property of the owner is a pretty good defense against adverse possession.

The title company should have found some record. They may need to go back farther. If the property is exempt from taxes it maybe owned by a church or other religious organization. Also, in some states graveyards are exempt from taxes.

It is possible the lots were auctioned off for back taxes and no one bid on them. They would be owned by the taxing entity that auctioned them off.

I think it is also possible that the lots were simply abandoned or are in some type of title limbo.

Go ahead and fence them and use them. It doesn't sound like anyone will challenge you after all this time. Yes, start paying the taxes since the governmental entity already believes you own them.

Since you call these lots, instead of acreage it make me believe that at some point this land was divided from larger parcels. Until fairly recently land subdivisions were not required to be recorded. A person could have a surveyor mark out lots or just some amount of acres and it got sold by "meetes and bounds" It did not necessarily get recorded properly. also there are cases I know of in Luling where land sales and splits in the "poor part of town" were never recorded. This gives the land surveyors fits and there appears to be no way to technically resolve it, as in shooting a new survey from the original point of beginning. If no one has been paying taxes on this land then there would seem to be no one who believes they own it. If there are any old surveyors in your town /county they may be able to help you. If this was part of a larger subdivision and the last few lots werent sold when the owners went out of business then they would be orphans. Are there surveyors markers for the property corners ? usually those are iron pins, short pieces of 1/2" rebar. if it is grown up a metal detector will help locate them. if so, some surveyor set those pins, and someone paid that surveyor. If it is part of a larger parcel that was split up and the adjoining lots originated at the same time then you can find out something about them. I hate working on unrecorded subdivisions.....good luck to you

Yes sir! Mr. Grubbs there is a iron pin on the left side corner of our lots and we have tried to look for the right side of the corner iron pin but no luck , and yes you are Right !! These lots that we bought in 1982 it was a very ,very huge subdivision back in the days it shows it was 9000 acres and it was sold by tracts and then ??

So what can we do ? are who do we talk to? The lady that sold the lots she has passed away ,but her daughter is still alive and she `s the one that said that part of the land is ours.

And thank you so much for reply,,,TEXAS LADY

Andy G. Grubbs said:

Since you call these lots, instead of acreage it make me believe that at some point this land was divided from larger parcels. Until fairly recently land subdivisions were not required to be recorded. A person could have a surveyor mark out lots or just some amount of acres and it got sold by "meetes and bounds" It did not necessarily get recorded properly. also there are cases I know of in Luling where land sales and splits in the "poor part of town" were never recorded. This gives the land surveyors fits and there appears to be no way to technically resolve it, as in shooting a new survey from the original point of beginning. If no one has been paying taxes on this land then there would seem to be no one who believes they own it. If there are any old surveyors in your town /county they may be able to help you. If this was part of a larger subdivision and the last few lots werent sold when the owners went out of business then they would be orphans. Are there surveyors markers for the property corners ? usually those are iron pins, short pieces of 1/2" rebar. if it is grown up a metal detector will help locate them. if so, some surveyor set those pins, and someone paid that surveyor. If it is part of a larger parcel that was split up and the adjoining lots originated at the same time then you can find out something about them. I hate working on unrecorded subdivisions.....good luck to you


Get daughter to sign an affidavit stating you own it, or a quitclaim deed. Describe the lots as best you can using your lots as a point of reference, even if it is "those lots contiguous and to the north, south, east or west" of your lots. Record it, fence the lots to join yours, and start paying taxes on them.
Texas Lady said:

Yes sir! Mr. Grubbs there is a iron pin on the left side corner of our lots and we have tried to look for the right side of the corner iron pin but no luck , and yes you are Right !! These lots that we bought in 1982 it was a very ,very huge subdivision back in the days it shows it was 9000 acres and it was sold by tracts and then ??

So what can we do ? are who do we talk to? The lady that sold the lots she has passed away ,but her daughter is still alive and she `s the one that said that part of the land is ours.

And thank you so much for reply,,,TEXAS LADY

Andy G. Grubbs said:

Since you call these lots, instead of acreage it make me believe that at some point this land was divided from larger parcels. Until fairly recently land subdivisions were not required to be recorded. A person could have a surveyor mark out lots or just some amount of acres and it got sold by "meetes and bounds" It did not necessarily get recorded properly. also there are cases I know of in Luling where land sales and splits in the "poor part of town" were never recorded. This gives the land surveyors fits and there appears to be no way to technically resolve it, as in shooting a new survey from the original point of beginning. If no one has been paying taxes on this land then there would seem to be no one who believes they own it. If there are any old surveyors in your town /county they may be able to help you. If this was part of a larger subdivision and the last few lots werent sold when the owners went out of business then they would be orphans. Are there surveyors markers for the property corners ? usually those are iron pins, short pieces of 1/2" rebar. if it is grown up a metal detector will help locate them. if so, some surveyor set those pins, and someone paid that surveyor. If it is part of a larger parcel that was split up and the adjoining lots originated at the same time then you can find out something about them. I hate working on unrecorded subdivisions.....good luck to you

do i have to go through a lawyer for a affidavit ?

No. Anyone can prepare one, and anyone can file one. It needs to be properly notarized. An affidavit does not transfer title though. Maybe you should just follow the original advice and fence it. It really doesn't sound like anyone will question you.

When was the subdivision platted? Did the title company go back all the way to the original plat when they searched the records? Are the two lots part of an easement or right-of-way (such as drainage, utilities, pipeline, sewer, etc.)? 1926 is a ways back, but not necessarily all the way. They should have gone back to plat. If no records exist since the beginning of the plat, then it is probably owned by whoever platted the land.

good morning everyone

i really don`t when the subdivision was platted

I'm actually litigating two adverse possession cases right now, with highly contested facts, so all of this is pretty fresh in my mind. Here are my two cents:

First, it doesn't sound like a tax sale is really relevant -- you have said the taxing entity doesn't even recognize the parcel, and you said no one can find out what happened to the property since 1926. When I see this, the property has "theoretically" devolved to the heirs of the owner in 1926.... and they typically have no idea, and aren't interested in the property anyway -- of course, this all changes if there is oil/gas production. They come out of the woodwork quite interested.

So what should you do?

FIrst, I'd say you ought to speak with an attorney. There are a lot of great suggestions here, but we dont' know enough facts from what you've said to really render solid advice. Further, I do have to tell you that what I'm about to say can not and should not be considered legal advice... I'm merely giving you an outline of a few possible paths an "adverse possessor" could take. Adverse possession is extremely complex, fact intensive, so you really need to chat with an attorney so that the best path (which may or may not be one of the following) can be devised based on your specific facts.

I typically tell people with title issues with a strong adverse possession element that they usually have a few common options. The first route is what many above are suggesting - with affidavits, fencing, publications, etc. A second move would be to combine these moves with a quiet title suit... Winning this type of suit essentially gives you rock-solid title (yes, there are some exceptions, such as failure to include claimant(s) in the suit). A third option may be to cure the title... though this has risks as well.

However, if you don't bring a quiet title suit, then technically you won't have marketable title. However, many people are content relying on "limitations title," meaning that they are fine filing affidavits of use and possession, fencing, doing other actions to bolster an adverse possession claim, etc., and relying on their ability to defend against future claims, such as trespass to try title claims by a different possessor/record title owner.

No Suit Route: So if you wanted to go this "non-suit route," then the filing of an affidavit would assist you a great deal, the fencing could also be a crucial component depending on the acreage you currently own on record title as well as the acreage of this other tract. Petitioning the tax assessor to begin assessing you taxes, and paying those taxes could also really bolster your claim. I'd chat with an attorney to come up with a list of actions you could take to best bolster your claim -- again, adverse possession is extremely fact intensive, so no general "hey, just do 'x,' 'y,' and 'z'" will work. However, this route has its limitations, and you need to be aware of them: first, future buyers are usually not interested in purchasing land from someone who only owns "limitations title" and I've never seen a bank that is keen on the idea. So if you have these burdens on selling the property, that can be enough to push a lot of owners to do something more... one option of which may be described below.

As another quick note on this route, affidavits of use and possession can be very simple, and you could DIY it. But I've seen a good deal of these affidavits that are worth very little. I could literally write an entire series of articles on the problems I've seen in 'title clearing' affidavits. Texas has some very thorough case law on adverse possession, and a lot of unique factors can bolster a case - many of which may not be that apparent which facts can make or break your case. Who built the fence, how was the fence maintained, was the land used for grazing, what type of gates were installed, etc. Also, the person you have swear to the affidavit can have a great deal of impact. I guess my point is that you should approach the affidavit with a keen eye... it's not something to "pencil whip."

Quiet Title Route: Another route, as I mentioned above, would be to file a quiet title suit. From what you've said, this suit would essentially be filed against 'unknown defendants,' and as another person said, publication would come into play here. I would also suggest publication in a normal newspaper, rather than some sort of legal newspaper - the idea is to make it look like you've made a diligent effort to reach any potential claimants to the land. This can have two purposes - one of which is adverse possession specific, the other of which is a specific required civil procedure device, required by law as a prerequisite to filing this type of suite. Texas has a great deal of law regarding this type of publication, so it certainly isn't anything too terribly unique.

From the sounds of it, i may very well be that no one would even respond to this suit, and you could possibly have a very quick and easy claim. As far as legal services go, if nothing any more complex than this comes up, you'd have a pretty darned small pricetag. After this suit, if you were successful, you would then be the rightful legal owner of marketable record title. You could much more easily sell it, banks should be satisfied, and you'd be set.

Curative Route: Finally, you could "sure" the title without any law suit. Many ways you could do this, but one would be to obtain "quitclaim deeds" from the 1926 owner's successors (usually this is the heirs). This could involve costly heirship research, and has several other downsides. For example, I have seen people shy away from this move due to the fact that they fear "tipping off" these successors as to their claim to the property. Additionally, I have seen these takers immediately specify a pricetag for the quitclaim deed.. sometimes it's legitimate, other times these heirs are just trying to get $$. Just to name another risk of doing curative, sometimes these offers can really hurt your adverse possession claim. I've seen these offers fall through, and later destroy an adverse possession claim because the heir comes back and says "well how can you say you have been treating this land as though you are the rightful owner if you are out there sending me offers? it sounds like you were treating ME as the rightful owner." For the legal types, the idea is that this offer may hurt your ability to prove that your possession was "exclusive" and "hostile."

Conclusion

Not to repeat myself too much here, but I'll tell you that my best help is that you really ought to get with an attorney and discuss the options. No one on an internet forum can read one quick paragraph about your scenario and give you solid adverse possession advice. It's simply too complex, and there are too many routes available. I mean, heck, not even my long post above goes through all the options...

thank you sir for your reply