This is a very informative discussion. I would like to thank the land professionals who are taking the time to post here. My earlier post dealt with how this parcel could have originated, but not as much with how it arrived at its present ownership status. It seems to me that you do not need to go back to the 1926 owners. You said the land was part of 9000 acres that was divided and sold as tracts. If the land was owned by a commercial entity that went out of business would there any heirs ? It seems really odd that there is no tax id on this parcel. That makes me think that at some time the land was taken over by the county , city or some other entity that keeps land off the tax rolls. It could have been a remainder of a larger tract that was left over after more desireable lots were split off. If there is an old land surveyor or small local civil engineer who has worked your area for the last several decades try to find them. If they had to work on adjoining lots sometime they may have run into this and know something. Once the tax liability on a tract is more than its value It can easily get abandoned.
In Texas we are supposed to have ALL property listed on the tax rolls, EVEN if it is Tax Exempt. If it is not on the rolls, then it is likely an oversight (error) on appraisal district. The appraisal district accounts for and values all property for the tax roll (so that the tax assessor can then assess / bill for taxes on each parcel, where taxes are due).
Mr. Brister has provided an excellent response. He is correct, we do not know enough facts to give clear answers. One suggestion would be to find the plat for the property she lives on, and see if those two lots next to it are included in the same plat. Maybe it is not platted at all, and it is still in a metes and bounds legal description in a Survey. All of those questions are essentially unanswered still. All of these answers can be found through searching records at the clerks office, and potentially the appraisal district if they are very helpful.
Kitchen, I'm not sure if this is just an anomaly, but I have seen a tract of land with no parcel ID, that was just a blank spot on the map of the Appraisal District. No clue what that means, or why it would happen, but I would be inclined to believe that they have not been taxing anyone for the property, and also have not had any issue with that lack of taxation either. I suppose this would also lead me to feel even more comfortable with the lack of any tax delinquencies/tax sales.
Perhaps that was more rare of a find than I had thought?
County tax parcel maps are not all that good. I am always finding little problems with the ones around San Marcos. Usually just little things. A corner a bit out here, some property lines off bearing slightly. Occasionally they come up with real whoppers. Whole subdivisions that show lot lines running thru houses when you put the lots on the air photos. Add to that the land record / subdivision folks are different from the tax parcel ones. As more counties get their records into modern mapping programs we will find a lot of these technical mistakes. Texas lady's problem is not one of these. This seems to be more a problem of missing records, something that was not filed properly, or unrecorded. Back when; you could have found some old timer who would have known what happened. There have been several boom and busts in Texas real estate in the past 40 years and things are lost. At some point you have to quit trying to figure out what happened and just concentrate on fixing it.
It is a pretty rare find, but it does happen. Sometimes on the map there are areas that do not have a parcel ID. Examples of this are public right of ways (streets, drainage canals, alleys, etc.) However, in the case of a private property that has no ID, it is much more rare. In Tarrant County there are a handful of parcels with "Unknown" as the owner. If the appraisal district is unable to determine ownership, they will be placed on the roll as "Unknown". Once the taxes are assessed and go delinquent (for 3 or more years) the County begins the tax foreclosure process - where they contract out a private firm who will do title work for all properties before a tax sale. Often times this title work will reveal who the owners are, or their heirs, and notice will be served. If no heirs are found, the process can take a different turn where the property would possibly be required to be held by the county.
Another issue I just thought of has to do with legal descriptions (platted or unplatted) with these two lots in question. It is possible there was a re-plat done of the area (or an "assessors plat") and those parcels legal description changed from what they originally were, or possibly changed in error. That may also explain why no records have been found (someone may be searching for a legal description that instruments may not have been recorded under). Or if they were never platted then someone would have to look at the Abstract records and not the subdivision (platted) records. It is really hard to nail anything down without seeing all of the exact facts on here. I asked in an earlier response if the two lots are part of an easement, public right of way, or other "public" type property that may not have (or need) a parcel ID. A good title search should have found something. The biggest problems we run into with "unknown" parcels are poor / inaccurate legal descriptions.
There is a chance this land is a ROW owned by the state. Is your property off of a highway, possibly an intersection?
Does it run along a creek or river? It could have been condemned.
Edit: Sorry if this has already been discussed. I didn't see Pg 2.
No it`s not along a creek or river
it`s inside city limits ,but i already went to the city and asked them they know exactly where those lots are
i have those people working there heads they never experience something like this ,i see them come and go looking at the land they say we have always thought these belong to you and your family.
i my self wish i could post my deed to all of you so you can see there`s to many "numbers " beginning at point,
but i did find those iron pins that Mr. Grubbs said only one on the west side corner of my property
Thank you so much for everything for all of your replys
i will keep all of you posted ,but i really want those lots if they are called lots !
Don't be fooled if the City says they don't own it. Many cities do a poor job at keeping records of which properties they own. The City of Fort Worth has a good system and they own hundreds of properties that will eventually be sold back to the public. They have been cleaning house of vacant lots they own (acquired by tax defaults) recently. They have a list online of all the tracts that they own which can be purchased.
Some appraisal districts are far better than others at keeping records too. I randomly checked two South Texas counties for records on my family's property, and both had GROSS errors. One has a house with a homestead exemption on it. The house has been abandoned and boarded up for YEARS with no one living in it (It does not qualify for a homestead exemption if you don't live in it). The other county shows we have a vacant lot, but in reality it has a very nice home on the lot! And all of this I know from Google Maps "Street View" of the properties.
Hello Kitchen:
i just came from the county surveyor and he also tells me it not even in the old city maps
but my gosh!!! its beside our property how can that be! He even showed me the map i saw it with my eyes its not there ! it might not even be 2 lots ,,, But still they are there ,even the surveyor is puzzled about this .
He said has to be survey , to know whats going on , but i asked him so who pays he said you do since you want to own it .
Guys need your help what i do ?
Texas Lady!
You need to have someone (you or a title company) search the county clerk's office for the abstract (Survey) that this property exists in. Who researched the county records and found nothing the first time? I would go back with a copy of the abstract (Survey) map and highlight where the property is and have them search for that in the records filed under that Abstract. Depending on how the records are kept there, that process could be easy, or it could be very time consuming. I would rather pay someone $100 for a title search (with results) than waste a day of my time looking through an endless room of documents for a property that you do not even have a real legal description for. The abstract could have 1000 different parcels or it could have 100. Trying to comb through 1000 parcels without a proper legal description could be very time consuming. I hope this is not discouraging, but if it were me, I would get a title company to run the title for you for an agreed upon fee (before they search) and let them do the work. They should have the expertise to find it a lot faster than most people could. In reality, you've notified the Appraisal District of this problem, they should be doing the same research to determine who owns it so they can put it on the tax roll. Whether or not they care (about a property missing from the tax roll) is a different story!
Sir Thank you for your time : i did the title search all they found that we own the surface and minerals ,etc. on our property and he did looked on all that part of the property which he showed me that he went back to 1926 and found nothing on that part that we are interest in ,, and when i went to the Appraisal District they had no record of that part of land they can see it on google but on there records,TEXAS LADY
You might also try to find out if any other adjoining lots were once part of a larger parcel with this piece. It could be a "remainder" that was left over after the lots were split out. In that case there might not be a specific legal description. I would point out that how the tract originated and how its ownership status evolved are different subjects, one of which seems to be more important than the other. do not assume that the missing pin is close to where you think it ought to be, there could be setbacks or property lines in the middle of the street. The best way to find it is to get a metal detector. pins get buried, run over by lawnmowers, ect.
I would still go back to the title company. Explain to them that the vacant property is not on the tax rolls and that it may not have ever been platted. See if they can run their research again. Assuming your lot (your house) is platted, if the adjoining vacant property is not platted, the records would not have been found under your subdivision (plat). That may explain why they never found any record of it. The records would have been located by search the Abstract, which is land which has not been platted. What Andy said about it being a remainder is very possible, and that is why I suggested having the title company look again. As an individual unfamiliar with reading metes and bounds and combing through potentially thousands of records will not be an easy task for the average person. The title company should be able to do that part much quicker.
My two cents:
All these suggestions are great as far as establishing a paper trail, and finding where the records currently stand. My advice would be to hire an attorney who will team up with one of these landmen (or vice versa). The landman will do this research and forward his findings to an attorney(and as Kitchen said, they are usually very efficient due to experience in the records), and the attorney will devise a few options for you to move forward. One of the paths forward may very well be along the lines of what Andy said - to get a surveyor to investigate and/or establish a new set of metes and bounds for this tract of land, of which will be used by the attorney to establish your claim to the land.
Austin
Mr. Brister is correct. Especially when it comes to any action for adverse possession or quiet title, a legal description will likely have to be established (by a survey), especially if property is a "remainder" of a larger parcel that has since been split out, partially platted, etc. There are lots of moving parts to situation like this! A landman or title company should be able to do the title research. I would choose the route with least cost involved. Never hurts to shop around, or find a very kind person who may volunteer for such a task (Yes, it does happen!).
one surveyor wants 1200 to do it
Another option may be to describe the tract using several "LESS AND EXCEPT that certain tract" paragraphs, where you would describe the larger tract, and then specify which tracts you are NOT discussing. This may save you the surveyor costs... But it certainly isn't as clean as a new survey, and therefore doesn't provide you the same security -- moreover, in your scenario, with this much ambiguity, such a concept may not be feasible.
Unfortunately, that's the problem with discussing concepts in the abstract, in a vacuum. It's hard, if not impossible, to determine anything at all without reviewing the materials.
That price is pretty comparable to going rates in Fort Worth - if they are going to survey and re-plat the property. I wouldn't spend that kind of money without getting the title work or visiting with an attorney about your options first. A regular survey here is about $300-400. To plat (or re-plat) a property $1200-1800.
Hi Kitchen for that kind of money they think they are digging for oil ! geez!
i would understand if it was alot of land like acres but this is a little piece and and its on a corner. and here where we live its a small town . but there`s oil all around ,people getting rich .
did you get to the google maps?
Unfortunately, you're not going to find qualified professionals to spend hours working through complex property records, completing convoluted surveying requirements, and instituting a quiet title action for less than that.
Not saying all the above are necessary, but this kind of work is simply what obtaining, maintaining, and dealing with property rights consists of. It's expensive for a reason; it's not easy and it takes lot of work, whether it is a big chunk of acres, or a corner of property.
If it is truly just a small little piece of the corner of your property, I'd go chat with an attorney who can look at the plat, compare with the records, and recommend whether or not you'd be reasonably safe in relying on limitations title.... and if so, he/she may even suggest a couple little moves to make your claim a little safer. On the lower end, just to review the title, advise you as to how you could rely on limitations title, and draft an affidavit of use and possession, with nothing more, I'd say you're looking at.. oh who knows.. $800-2000 depending completely on the complexity of title...
But all this would be after a qualified landman went out to do the actual title research. That really is the first step -- he could actually give you better assistance than all this abstract talk we've been doing. Next, a free consultation with an attorney could give you an idea of what the cost would be, and like I said, there's just no shortcuts..
AB