I received a Notice of Forced Pooling from Continental Resources the same day I saw the HBO documentary "Gasland 2." Have you seen the footage from Texas and NY of landowners lighting their garden hoses and kitchen sinks on fire? What is the point of cheap energy if we have no more clean water and pay more for that than for gas?
If there are any people on this site who can tell me what to do to oppose and protest this forced pooling, I'd like to stand up for our water table and for alternate energies, because natural gas is dirtier than coal and is blotting the landscape. forced pooling, I'd like to stand up for our water table and for alternate energies, because natural gas is dirtier than coal and is blotting the landscape.
Everyone in the industry must see this film.
Thank you,
Chipper Roth
Vancouver BC
Chipper, have you put in much study on coal? Or did you just hear from someone that natural gas is dirtier than coal?
I haven't seen gasland 2 but the thing I think people are missing is that it's not the fracking. The water is usually at a much lesser depth and would not be effected by fracking at all. The fresh water zones not being sufficiently isolated from where the verticle wellbore passes through them would be the more likely problem. If I may, I'd like to suggest that you do some study on fracking, how far the fractures extend. Most water wells are less than 3,000 feet deep and at a rough guess most fracking occours at twice that depth. Do you really believe that the fractures are extending for more than half a mile?
I agree that some water tables have been contaminated but lets lay it at the door of the actual offender, the poor isolation of fresh water zones the verticle wellbore passes through. I would say also that we should not blame all operators because I believe that the process can be completed safely, but the operators who skimp and do not do all that should be necessary should be punished with DRACONIAN measures. I don't want them to pee in the public pool any more than you do.
Also, remember that there is some naturally occouring gas at depths really close to the surface. It does not take millions of years to make methane. They can produce methane from landfills right now. Methane is not rare, cows produce methane. I'd be glad to hear more from you if you will consider what I said and you do an hour of research of your very own instead of what they spoon feed you.
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Chipper,
My suggestion would be to educate yourself on this and not rely on a documentary. I am from Louisiana and I have seen people light their water on fire. It is from naturally moving methane within the geology of the land. Usually near the water table. Not from fracking which is done thousands of feet below the water table. Water has been contaminated from poor casing jobs, not from fracking. The problem is that people listen to all the mass hysteria and join the mob mentality and don't take the time to do the research themselves.
Natural gas is not dirtier than coal. I don't claim to be an expert in your field, so please don't make assumptions on something for which you admitted you know nothing about. Watching one documentary, does not make one an expert.
Since you say everyone in the industry should watch this film, I suggest you watch "Frac Nation". Also the Colorodo Oil and Gas Conservation Comission (COGCC) website has an article which refutes claims from the original "Gasland" documentary concerning false claims of contamination. Read up Chipper.
http://cogcc.state.co.us/Announcements/Hot_Topics/Hydraulic_Fracturing/GASLAND%20DOC.pdf
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Mussolini said that paper never refuses ink. Just because you read it or hear it on the news does not make it true. People with ulterior motives can twist facts and tell lies that will benefit their own interests. Look behind the scenes. Who is financing this crusade?
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/09/28/matt-damons-anti-fracking-movie-financed-by-oil-rich-arab-nation/
Read about Range Resources in the Barnett Shale. A group accused Range of contaminating ground water through fracking of Barnet Shale wells and the EPA came in ordering Range to shut everything down. Range took them to court and the EPA couldn’t produce one expert in court to prove it was Range that caused the contamination. In fact, I’m fairly confident the EPA just gave up and never showed up or even tried to produce any evidence. Range produced numerous experts that showed the gas in the groundwater came from the Strawn, a much shallower formation a few hundred feet from the water table, among other facts. Every formation has its own unique markers and they could find no Barnett markers in the gas found in the groundwater. Case closed and Range won. You have to remember that it’s not 6,000+ feet of loose dirt, but 6,000+ feet of solid rock that separates these wells from the groundwater. Geologists and engineers for the state regulatory body and oil company that are far more educated than some over-emotional filmmaker spend countless hours ensuring that the groundwater is protected from every well. Their methods are based on science, mathematics and physics versus emotion. In short, your groundwater is safe - enjoy your new well. You are lucky to have it.
Nice quote! Of course you are right, and up to us to find the truth. See Gasland. The O and G lobbyists and their employers are financing the rape and pillage for profit and to buy the government. Which family had 100 members evacuated from NYC asap after 9/11? the bin ladens.
Look at the private money of the Carlyle investment group and get back to me what % is Bush/Cheney/Bin Laden/Saudi Money.
WAKE UP and take your own advice. Thanks for tip on Damon movie, haven't seen it.
Robert V. Gill said:
Marcus,
Wow, that's exactly the case that GASLAND 2 is based on! And didn't end how you said. Get back to me after you see it, I'd be interested to know if you change your mind.
Lucky to have an oil well? My great uncle Stanley Marcus was the Marcus in Neiman. Our family fortune came from nouveau riche in Texas buying ermine pearls and matching chocolate monopoly sets.
Start an anti-frack party in your neighborhood and you can have the royalties to pay the band, and we will all dance under the gorgeous plumes of burning methane. Water for the People!
Marcus T said:
Read about Range Resources in the Barnett Shale. A group accused Range of contaminating ground water through fracking of Barnet Shale wells and the EPA came in ordering Range to shut everything down. Range took them to court and the EPA couldn't produce one expert in court to prove it was Range that caused the contamination. In fact, I'm fairly confident the EPA just gave up and never showed up or even tried to produce any evidence. Range produced numerous experts that showed the gas in the groundwater came from the Strawn, a much shallower formation a few hundred feet from the water table, among other facts. Every formation has its own unique markers and they could find no Barnett markers in the gas found in the groundwater. Case closed and Range won. You have to remember that it's not 6,000+ feet of loose dirt, but 6,000+ feet of solid rock that separates these wells from the groundwater. Geologists and engineers for the state regulatory body and oil company that are far more educated than some over-emotional filmmaker spend countless hours ensuring that the groundwater is protected from every well. Their methods are based on science, mathematics and physics versus emotion. In short, your groundwater is safe - enjoy your new well. You are lucky to have it.
In Kansas where I have minerals, the oil and gas is only 800-900 feet deep. There are several formations with water in between the surface and the oil and gas. There is so much natural gas underground (and close to the surface), if you find areas where water will collect and remain for days/weeks in a low spot in a field, you can see gas bubble up naturally at times. If you think I am crazy, then maybe my grandfather, who has witnessed this occur for the past 35 years (before fracking or natural gas production), is crazy.
In Texas I have heard from the "old timers" who have lived in this area (and their families here for generations) have told me that it is a well known fact that some of the complaints regarding contaminated water have occurred in areas that the locals know to have always had poor / bad water.
I really don't want to get into a back and forth and find it amusing when others do on this forum. But here is an article from the Fort Worth Star Telegram detailing the case and its outcome exactly as I wrote above:
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/30/3849362/epa-drops-action-against-range.html
If the movie stated anything other than this it must be incorrect. Concerning family fortune, I don't have any. Both my parents were school teachers and farmers. Royalty checks have been a true blessing to us and we still have some of the finest groundwater for miles.
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Chip it appears the Carlyle Group provides investment capital to a broad spectrum of industries. It went public in May of 2012, so anyone with the money can invest in it. Their symbol is CG and is traded on the NASDAQ.
As to the personal investments of the Bush and Cheney families, I really don't care where they invest. However, I do have a lot of respect and personal admiration for both of these families.
Marcus,
"Royalty checks have been a true blessing to us and we still have some of the finest groundwater for miles."
Then you are one of the lucky ones, sir. I mean no disrespect, and I am certain you have many decades of well earned wisdom, but it may serve you well to not assume that everyone else's experiences will always match your own. I have personally witnessed others fall into the "not-so-lucky" category, and it's an ugly thing. Watching a man's entire family legacy unravel right in front of him is not a pretty sight, and was very humbling for me. Just because you have not experienced this yourself does not mean that it does not happen. I hope for your sake you never have to experience it, and that you continued to be so blessed.
Marcus T said:
I really don't want to get into a back and forth and find it amusing when others do on this forum. But here is an article from the Fort Worth Star Telegram detailing the case and its outcome exactly as I wrote above:
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/30/3849362/epa-drops-action-ag...
If the movie stated anything other than this it must be incorrect. Concerning family fortune, I don't have any. Both my parents were school teachers and farmers. Royalty checks have been a true blessing to us and we still have some of the finest groundwater for miles.
Chipper, a perfect name for a guy who brags about his relationship to Neiman-Marcus. I suggest you join up with Al Gore and the other Limousine Liberals, you won't find much sympathy among mineral rights owners. Go tell the Hershey family that chocolate is bad for their health.
Cheerio Chipper!
Marcus, there are some new developments in the Parker County water contamination case.
An investigation by Ramit Plushnick-Masti of the Associated Press revealed the EPA dropped legal action against Range Resources Corp.under political pressure even though an independent study strongly suggested that Range’s drilling operations contaminated a nearby water well. The study was conducted by scientist Geoffrey Thyne and commissioned by the EPA.
Hope your royalty checks are high enough to buy you some uncontaminated water and air.
Marcus T said:
I really don't want to get into a back and forth and find it amusing when others do on this forum. But here is an article from the Fort Worth Star Telegram detailing the case and its outcome exactly as I wrote above:
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/30/3849362/epa-drops-action-ag...
If the movie stated anything other than this it must be incorrect. Concerning family fortune, I don't have any. Both my parents were school teachers and farmers. Royalty checks have been a true blessing to us and we still have some of the finest groundwater for miles.
Actually, that's not at all true. There are many mineral owners who are against what is happening right now. And there are many mineral owners who were all for shale oil & gas development but have learned the hard way that it's not all it's fracked up to be.
Michael Hutchison said:
Chipper, a perfect name for a guy who brags about his relationship to Neiman-Marcus. I suggest you join up with Al Gore and the other Limousine Liberals, you won't find much sympathy among mineral rights owners. Go tell the Hershey family that chocolate is bad for their health.
Cheerio Chipper!
Well Ray, hop on the (diesel burning) bus with Chipper. How's that electric car working out for you guys? Oh that's right electricity is not magic it's generated by burning gas and coal. How 'bout that solar powered airplane oops, cloudy today gotta stay home.
A little cranky today, are we Michael?
Just because someone is anti-fracking doesn't mean they are anti-petro. There's nothing wrong with wanting a little accountability.
Michael Hutchison said:
Well Ray, hop on the (diesel burning) bus with Chipper. How's that electric car working out for you guys? Oh that's right electricity is not magic it's generated by burning gas and coal. How 'bout that solar powered airplane oops, cloudy today gotta stay home.
Just to play the devil's advocate. Let's say that I owned 5 sections of property where I have an ongoing ranching and ag business.
I own the surface and 10% of the minerals under my ranch. The operator and I never could come to a resolution on a lease that had a surface use agreement and damage amounts, notice, etc, so I refused to lease.
The next day, I get notice that says, too bad, so sad. Pick some terms because your 3200 acres are gong to be dotted with wells, because the state says that they know what is better for me and my family.
Thank you government for taking care of me. Appreciate it. I just cannot say no, if I do not want to.
Michael,
My electricity is not generated by gas or coal.
I am a mineral owner so the best outcome for me would be one where shale development could happen with few impacts but that is not the reality we are currently seeing. Several years ago, I had hope that the operators would to better and use best practices but now I see that is not going to happen. And even with best practices, I am beginning to see that fracking cannot be done safely. That DOE study that "leaked" showed they do not have control of the fractures. One fracture traveled 1800 feet when they expected it to travel about 200 feet.
In the end, I value water and clean are over royalties.
Michael Hutchison said:
Well Ray, hop on the (diesel burning) bus with Chipper. How's that electric car working out for you guys? Oh that's right electricity is not magic it's generated by burning gas and coal. How 'bout that solar powered airplane oops, cloudy today gotta stay home.
James, you and Ray and Chipper or anyone else has the right to discuss any subject you like but this forum was not established to debate environmental topics. If the operators of this forum so desire I'm sure they can create a group for that purpose. You guys are welcome to formulate some solutions to the problems you perceive and get back to us. In the meantime I am gleefully awaiting that monthly direct deposit while I sip on a glass of pristine water from my well just around the corner from one of the most prolific natural gas fields in south Texas.