Michael,
That's kind of awkward to hear from someone who just spewed his opinion all over this thread. As far as your comments on having clean water, see my first comment...you are one of the lucky ones, and it would be very ignorant of you to believe that every case is going to go the same way as yours. No one here is saying that it is impossible to frack and get good results. If you actually read other comments and participated as if this was a debate, rather than peppering it with immature comebacks, maybe you would have realized this and saved some face.
Michael Hutchison said:
James, you and Ray and Chipper or anyone else has the right to discuss any subject you like but this forum was not established to debate environmental topics. If the operators of this forum so desire I'm sure they can create a group for that purpose. You guys are welcome to formulate some solutions to the problems you perceive and get back to us. In the meantime I am gleefully awaiting that monthly direct deposit while I sip on a glass of pristine water from my well just around the corner from one of the most prolific natural gas fields in south Texas.
This thread is actually in the oil and gas leasing help group. Maybe the powers that be should move it to regulation where I think it would belong?
I didn't see Gasland or Gasland 2 but I did see Fracknation - another documentary which goes into the science of fracking and pointed out some of the misinformation put out there by Gasland. I would encourage you to watch it. I found it quite interesting and informative.
I'm also lucky I didn't die in a car crash today but all that makes me is one of the majority just like the majority who don't have fire coming out of their faucets. Safety should be a priority in all industry but lets keep it in proportion. There are much greater dangers in life than death by fracing.
Bob Kennedy, you are correct. I'm finished with this subject.
Michael,
Happens that I am a girl named Chipper, AKA Gloria Lynn.
Finding out about my family and roots back in OK and Texas has been the great part of this. I/ve never shopped at Neiman's, matter of fact. You can brag about your water and well, but I can't say, hey, my greatgrandparents were in the oklahoma land run, how about yours? How'd you get into it?
I know I am not going to change anyone's minds, least of all yours. Let's just share views.
As for Hershey's, now all the news about chocolate is that it's good for your health!
If your grandkids have to pay $5 gallon for water, if they have birth defects or live horrible painful lives, if they have to pay for the sins of their fore fathers, it's on your head...not mine....I didn't have kids because I knew overpopulation would kill the world I love, and I was right!
It makes me happy your water is good! Don't you want the same for everyone?
Michael Hutchison said:
Chipper, a perfect name for a guy who brags about his relationship to Neiman-Marcus. I suggest you join up with Al Gore and the other Limousine Liberals, you won't find much sympathy among mineral rights owners. Go tell the Hershey family that chocolate is bad for their health.
Cheerio Chipper!
Marcus,
I don't follow your logic. Because the TULSA newspapers reports a story one way, it HAS to be true? Since when it the media arm of the oil and gas industry in Oklahoma an unbiased source and better than a documentary about one story by a relentless investigator?
Your parents were teachers is hard to fathom. Surely they taught you not to believe everything you read, and to think for yourself!
Ray farner said:
Marcus, there are some new developments in the Parker County water contamination case.
An investigation by Ramit Plushnick-Masti of the Associated Press revealed the EPA dropped legal action against Range Resources Corp.under political pressure even though an independent study strongly suggested that Range’s drilling opera.... The study was conducted by scientist Geoffrey Thyne and commissioned by the EPA.
Hope your royalty checks are high enough to buy you some uncontaminated water and air.
Marcus T said:
I really don't want to get into a back and forth and find it amusing when others do on this forum. But here is an article from the Fort Worth Star Telegram detailing the case and its outcome exactly as I wrote above:
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/30/3849362/epa-drops-action-ag...
If the movie stated anything other than this it must be incorrect. Concerning family fortune, I don't have any. Both my parents were school teachers and farmers. Royalty checks have been a true blessing to us and we still have some of the finest groundwater for miles.
we have two weeks before we are forced pooled. In the past week, we have been contacted by many land men. Am I correct in saying that it is better to lease than wait to be force pooled by Continental, that I will get better terms, depth clauses, from one of these land men?
If I were to contact all the other owners of my unit, and ask them to join me to stop the drilling, could we stop the force pooling? What % of the ownership would be needed to block the pooling?
If all else fails, can I get someone to tie me up to the rig to stop the drilling? Or is the industry so ruthless that they'd pump me intot the ground?
The land in Grady country looks so ugly from the photos, is it good for anything else?
Finally, how much royalty $ are we even talking about, if my family owns 25% of the unit? If the well is a good well, is that like 400 barrels day, X 30/days/month, X @$100/ per barrel X .25% ownership interest X .20% royalty? Like that, roughly speaking?
appreciate any answers here.
http://energyindepth.org/national/debunking-gasland-part-ii/
I just picked the most comprehensive article that disproves almost everything Fox says......I wouldn't put any weight in ANYTHING Josh Fox puts out there.
Chipper,
I sure hope you can take your own advice and objectively look at more material other than the movie.
I really wish you would look at the other side of the story. Too often we base our decisions on what we see in a movie or on some form of social media. I encourage you to try to pull some of details from what both sides are trying to present. With only a high school level understanding of Geology and Physics, I think most can peel back some of the layers of propaganda on both sides of the argument and find a few “facts” to try to investigate?
Since you have seen a movie against fracturing, please watch this one.
http://www.truthlandmovie.com/watch-movie/
Here is a documentation of the drilling and fracturing process. It shows how the groundwater is protected. http://www.oerb.com/Default.aspx?tabid=336 Another is here http://www.oerb.com/Default.aspx?tabid=242 but there are several videos showing the process.
I think we can all agree we need energy. Energy to produce food, light and cool our homes, and businesses, and provide propulsion for our selected mode of travel. All methods of generation have pros and cons, there is not a perfect one out there. I personally think wind generation farms are as ugly as oil fields.
My experience is primarily in Oklahoma. Unitization and pooling prevent each house on the block having its own oil well in the back yard going to the same pool. In the early days that is about what happened. Take a look at picture in this article. http://www.oilandgaslawreport.com/2013/02/13/mandatory-pooling-and-unitization-in-ohio-part-i-history-and-constitutionality/ Horizontal wells and fracturing have changed the impact on the surface quite a bit. They can easily produce two entire 640 acre sections from 4-5 wells, instead of drilling 100+ wells.
I just glanced at the link Mineral Guy posted above and it looks like it has some facts listed. I’ll have to take a deeper look tonight.
Chipper Roth said:
Marcus,
Your parents were teachers is hard to fathom. Surely they taught you not to believe everything you read, and to think for yourself!
That all depends on where your minerals are located, but it isn't likely that you will be stopping this deal if you've gotten a notification of forced pooling, as that is backed up by law. You will get better terms by leasing as opposed to waiting and being forced pooled, I can tell you that much. As far as negotiating that lease, I recommend that you don't waste any more time and seek the help of a Professional Oil and Gas Land Firm, specifically one that is located in the state that your minerals are in.
Best of luck
Chipper Roth said:
we have two weeks before we are forced pooled. In the past week, we have been contacted by many land men. Am I correct in saying that it is better to lease than wait to be force pooled by Continental, that I will get better terms, depth clauses, from one of these land men?
If I were to contact all the other owners of my unit, and ask them to join me to stop the drilling, could we stop the force pooling? What % of the ownership would be needed to block the pooling?
If all else fails, can I get someone to tie me up to the rig to stop the drilling? Or is the industry so ruthless that they'd pump me intot the ground?
The land in Grady country looks so ugly from the photos, is it good for anything else?
Finally, how much royalty $ are we even talking about, if my family owns 25% of the unit? If the well is a good well, is that like 400 barrels day, X 30/days/month, X @$100/ per barrel X .25% ownership interest X .20% royalty? Like that, roughly speaking?
appreciate any answers here.
James,
Do you mind telling us the advantages of leasing over being force-pooled?
This property in question is in Oklahoma.
James T Snelson said:
That all depends on where your minerals are located, but it isn't likely that you will be stopping this deal if you've gotten a notification of forced pooling, as that is backed up by law. You will get better terms by leasing as opposed to waiting and being forced pooled, I can tell you that much. As far as negotiating that lease, I recommend that you don't waste any more time and seek the help of a Professional Oil and Gas Land Firm, specifically one that is located in the state that your minerals are in.
Mr Howell,
My understanding is that when being force pooled in OK you have a couple options. The pooling order will give you the choice to elect to either:
1) Do nothing and become a Working Interest Owner. This means you will be charged your proportionate share of the well costs before ever receiving any money from production.
OR
2) Elect to take one of the fair market equivalents (typically a 0.125 royalty) along with the standard lease terms.
At this point it is likely too late if you have already been force pooled, but you could attempt renegotiating lease terms with the oil company. Doing this, you may be able to negotiate terms that may be more favorable than the options in the pooling order.
It is possible to keep your land from being force pooled since every pooling order requires a hearing at which time you are given the chance to state your case. I'm not sure if that window has passed or not. One defense may be that the operator does not have the necessary percentage of leased mineral owners within the proposed unit to force pool the remaining unleased mineral owners. Other defenses are more case specific.
Again, I would recommend professional help, but I hope this helps.
Rick Howell said:
James,
Do you mind telling us the advantages of leasing over being force-pooled?
This property in question is in Oklahoma.
Mr. Snelson,
I believe that if you do nothing in Oklahoma, if you don't make an election in the forced pooling that the state will make an election for you. I also believe that the election the state will make will be the 1/8th option. Of course you could pay your participation for your proportionate part of the well in advance, but I would not call that doing nothing. Spending money on the well is the definition of "working interest".
James T Snelson said:
Mr Howell,
My understanding is that when being force pooled in OK you have a couple options. The pooling order will give you the choice to elect to either:
1) Do nothing and become a Working Interest Owner. This means you will be charged your proportionate share of the well costs before ever receiving any money from production.
OR
2) Elect to take one of the fair market equivalents (typically a 0.125 royalty) along with the standard lease terms.
At this point it is likely too late if you have already been force pooled, but you could attempt renegotiating lease terms with the oil company. Doing this, you may be able to negotiate terms that may be more favorable than the options in the pooling order.
It is possible to keep your land from being force pooled since every pooling order requires a hearing at which time you are given the chance to state your case. I'm not sure if that window has passed or not. One defense may be that the operator does not have the necessary percentage of leased mineral owners within the proposed unit to force pool the remaining unleased mineral owners. Other defenses are more case specific.
Again, I would recommend professional help, but I hope this helps.
Rick Howell said:
James,
Do you mind telling us the advantages of leasing over being force-pooled?
This property in question is in Oklahoma.
Chipper,
If you are as wealthy as you say you are and want to pull the oil companies teeth, why don't you participate in the well so the operator does not make money off your minerals? That will show them. You can stop them from profiting from your minerals.
Chipper Roth said:
we have two weeks before we are forced pooled. In the past week, we have been contacted by many land men. Am I correct in saying that it is better to lease than wait to be force pooled by Continental, that I will get better terms, depth clauses, from one of these land men?
If I were to contact all the other owners of my unit, and ask them to join me to stop the drilling, could we stop the force pooling? What % of the ownership would be needed to block the pooling?
If all else fails, can I get someone to tie me up to the rig to stop the drilling? Or is the industry so ruthless that they'd pump me intot the ground?
The land in Grady country looks so ugly from the photos, is it good for anything else?
Finally, how much royalty $ are we even talking about, if my family owns 25% of the unit? If the well is a good well, is that like 400 barrels day, X 30/days/month, X @$100/ per barrel X .25% ownership interest X .20% royalty? Like that, roughly speaking?
appreciate any answers here.
Mr. Kennedy,
Yes, I believe you to be correct, and completely agree. By "Do nothing" I meant as in "Do not respond/elect" and I certainly didn't mean that you would literally be "doing nothing" when you become a Working Interest Owner. I meant that if you do not respond/elect to take the 1/8th offer, then they will elect you to be a Working Interest Owner for you, as you just said. I should have been more clear, my apologies, I was quite rushed when answering and had no time to proof-read. And thank you for engaging because I would not have otherwise realized my mistakes,
So allow me to reiterate what the general options are:
Take their offer,
OR they elect you to take it anyway,
OR you can do your best to try and renegotiate the terms of the lease before being force pooled in order to try and get better terms than those which were originally offered (Which, to answer Rick's question, is the advantage of negotiating the lease over being force-pooled)
OR attempt to make your case at the hearing in order to keep your land from being pooled. (Which is what Chipper wanted to know originally)
r w kennedy said:
Mr. Snelson,
I believe that if you do nothing in Oklahoma, if you don't make an election in the forced pooling that the state will make an election for you. I also believe that the election the state will make will be the 1/8th option. Of course you could pay your participation for your proportionate part of the well in advance, but I would not call that doing nothing. Spending money on the well is the definition of "working interest".
Thanks for reply, James.
During a force pooling you can:
1) Do nothing and get the default pooling offering. Most commonly in the areas I have dealt with in Oklahoma, the default Royalty interest is 1/8. However some are 3/16.
2) Make an election within the election period (usually 20 days) and select one of the offerings. These offerings are supposed to be based on the highest least prices paid on that and the surrounding sections as testified to by the landmen. Typical choices are 1/8 RI, 3/16 RI, and ¼ RI. The cash bonus of course will be relative to the RI chosen and I’m not aware of any that have been offered with a ¼ election.
3) Elect to participate in the well by paying your proportion of the well costs up front usually within the same election period. In the past I have seen orders which allowed the WI proportion to be “carried” by the operator with a penalty, but I have not seen that on any recent orders I have followed.
Here is a sample order
http://imaging.occeweb.com/AP/Orders/03044373.pdf
Under force pooling only the formations listed would be involved. If you leased all depths would be tied up for that period of the lease (usually 3 years). If pooled typically 6 months is the time only the listed formations are tied up.
There are leases out there that are better than getting pooled, but I think they are rarer than many would have you believe. Looking at many leases filed just prior to pooling, most seem to be less favorable than pooling.
About the only common advantage I see is leasing can put money in your pocket now. On the other hand, waiting on a pooling order that never gets issued on a well that never gets drilled leaves you with empty pockets.
I’m not a professional by any means, which is why I ask. There may be other reasons to lease during the period before or after a pooling order, but I’m not aware of them. One other possibility would be in the case of non-marketable title. I have seen people lease clouded property in which they may or may not have been able to make a recognized election on the pooling order.
All of the above is based on Oklahoma poolings. I know other states vary greatly.
Rick
James T Snelson said:
Mr Howell,
My understanding is that when being force pooled in OK you have a couple options. The pooling order will give you the choice to elect to either:
1) Do nothing and become a Working Interest Owner. This means you will be charged your proportionate share of the well costs before ever receiving any money from production.
OR
2) Elect to take one of the fair market equivalents (typically a 0.125 royalty) along with the standard lease terms.
At this point it is likely too late if you have already been force pooled, but you could attempt renegotiating lease terms with the oil company. Doing this, you may be able to negotiate terms that may be more favorable than the options in the pooling order.
It is possible to keep your land from being force pooled since every pooling order requires a hearing at which time you are given the chance to state your case. I'm not sure if that window has passed or not. One defense may be that the operator does not have the necessary percentage of leased mineral owners within the proposed unit to force pool the remaining unleased mineral owners. Other defenses are more case specific.
Again, I would recommend professional help, but I hope this helps.
RW,
Who said I was wealthy? my great uncle Stanley Marcus was, but didn't leave it to me. I am a 64 yr old woman who works for a living, married to a jazz musician, so ! If you are watching your well pump, sure you have lots more net worth than I do.
Sure, I will sell out my principles for money and participate as an owner if Continental gives me that option. Not sure how to do it, I called and they weren't forthcoming....
Thanks for your input....
r w kennedy said:
Chipper,
If you are as wealthy as you say you are and want to pull the oil companies teeth, why don't you participate in the well so the operator does not make money off your minerals? That will show them. You can stop them from profiting from your minerals.
Chipper Roth said:
we have two weeks before we are forced pooled. In the past week, we have been contacted by many land men. Am I correct in saying that it is better to lease than wait to be force pooled by Continental, that I will get better terms, depth clauses, from one of these land men?
If I were to contact all the other owners of my unit, and ask them to join me to stop the drilling, could we stop the force pooling? What % of the ownership would be needed to block the pooling?
If all else fails, can I get someone to tie me up to the rig to stop the drilling? Or is the industry so ruthless that they'd pump me intot the ground?
The land in Grady country looks so ugly from the photos, is it good for anything else?
Finally, how much royalty $ are we even talking about, if my family owns 25% of the unit? If the well is a good well, is that like 400 barrels day, X 30/days/month, X @$100/ per barrel X .25% ownership interest X .20% royalty? Like that, roughly speaking?
appreciate any answers here.
Are you sure they have forced pooling where your minerals are? You need an attorney.
Chipper Roth said:
we have two weeks before we are forced pooled. In the past week, we have been contacted by many land men. Am I correct in saying that it is better to lease than wait to be force pooled by Continental, that I will get better terms, depth clauses, from one of these land men?
If I were to contact all the other owners of my unit, and ask them to join me to stop the drilling, could we stop the force pooling? What % of the ownership would be needed to block the pooling?
If all else fails, can I get someone to tie me up to the rig to stop the drilling? Or is the industry so ruthless that they'd pump me intot the ground?
The land in Grady country looks so ugly from the photos, is it good for anything else?
Finally, how much royalty $ are we even talking about, if my family owns 25% of the unit? If the well is a good well, is that like 400 barrels day, X 30/days/month, X @$100/ per barrel X .25% ownership interest X .20% royalty? Like that, roughly speaking?
appreciate any answers here.
Energy In Depth is the propaganda arm of the industry. They are a campaign of the Independent Petroleum Association of America. http://www.desmogblog.com/sites/beta.desmogblog.com/files/HFUnderFire.pdf
I'm sure we can believe everything they say since they get paid well to say it.
Mineral Guy said:
Did you know the woman in Truthland has wells on her property and that those wells have numerous violations from the state agency including faulty casing that allows gas to bubbles up in the annulus.
I wonder if that's the best example the industry had.
Rick Howell said:
Chipper,
I sure hope you can take your own advice and objectively look at more material other than the movie.
I really wish you would look at the other side of the story. Too often we base our decisions on what we see in a movie or on some form of social media. I encourage you to try to pull some of details from what both sides are trying to present. With only a high school level understanding of Geology and Physics, I think most can peel back some of the layers of propaganda on both sides of the argument and find a few “facts” to try to investigate?
Since you have seen a movie against fracturing, please watch this one.
http://www.truthlandmovie.com/watch-movie/
Here is a documentation of the drilling and fracturing process. It shows how the groundwater is protected. http://www.oerb.com/Default.aspx?tabid=336 Another is here http://www.oerb.com/Default.aspx?tabid=242 but there are several videos showing the process.
I think we can all agree we need energy. Energy to produce food, light and cool our homes, and businesses, and provide propulsion for our selected mode of travel. All methods of generation have pros and cons, there is not a perfect one out there. I personally think wind generation farms are as ugly as oil fields.
My experience is primarily in Oklahoma. Unitization and pooling prevent each house on the block having its own oil well in the back yard going to the same pool. In the early days that is about what happened. Take a look at picture in this article. http://www.oilandgaslawreport.com/2013/02/13/mandatory-pooling-and-... Horizontal wells and fracturing have changed the impact on the surface quite a bit. They can easily produce two entire 640 acre sections from 4-5 wells, instead of drilling 100+ wells.
I just glanced at the link Mineral Guy posted above and it looks like it has some facts listed. I’ll have to take a deeper look tonight.
Chipper Roth said:
Marcus,
Your parents were teachers is hard to fathom. Surely they taught you not to believe everything you read, and to think for yourself!