I did some research on my wife's mineral acreage after she leased up. We probably should have done that before, but we didin't. She leased about 1,000 acres. I found where all of that came from and discovered she might have another 270 in the adjacent county. The county line runs through her acreage. Her Great Grandfather had about 5 1/2 sections, which is where her portion of the minerals came from, and they no longer own any of the surface.
How are mineral rights separated from the sell of surface rights in Texas? What document would I look for at the courthouse? They were very helpful and tried to explain to me how that worked, but I just didn't get it.
You wouldn't get it because that isn't what the people who tried to explain it for you do for a living. They wouldn't be the ones to ask that. I think different links have been posted here that might attempt to answer your question.
I would say that it just depends. One example would be a mineral reservation in a deed. It is possible that in 1921, Great Ganddaddy sold about 1,000 acres but in the deed he reserved all of the oil, gas and minerals.
Are you free and clear? No. In 1929, at the height of the Great Depression, Granddaddy may have sold 1/8th of the minerals in order to buy some seed and cattle to help feed his family. In 1938, he may have sold 1/4th of the minerals.
Long answer short. You would need to complete a chain of title that would clarify the mineral estate. Learning to use the Grantor/Grantee indexes in the Office of County Clerk would be a good place to start.
Can anyone do that? Since I became a member here, I have seen some replies that encourage folks such as yourself, and tell you that you can. Personally, I have my doubts that someone who has never tried to run out a tract of land before, can do an accurate job on that. (especially if the mineral estate is very fractured)
I can also assure you that there are landmen out there who have been doing this for years that "just don't get it."
In a situation where a part or section is split by county lines, at least that part should be of record in both counties, but you never know. However, in a situation like that, the records of both counties should be checked. Dave Quincy said:
You wouldn't get it because that isn't what the people who tried to explain it for you do for a living. They wouldn't be the ones to ask that. I think different links have been posted here that might attempt to answer your question.
I would say that it just depends. One example would be a mineral reservation in a deed. It is possible that in 1921, Great Ganddaddy sold about 1,000 acres but in the deed he reserved all of the oil, gas and minerals.
Are you free and clear? No. In 1929, at the height of the Great Depression, Granddaddy may have sold 1/8th of the minerals in order to buy some seed and cattle to help feed his family. In 1938, he may have sold 1/4th of the minerals.
Long answer short. You would need to complete a chain of title that would clarify the mineral estate. Learning to use the Grantor/Grantee indexes in the Office of County Clerk would be a good place to start.
Can anyone do that? Since I became a member here, I have seen some replies that encourage folks such as yourself, and tell you that you can. Personally, I have my doubts that someone who has never tried to run out a tract of land before, can do an accurate job on that. (especially if the mineral estate is very fractured)
I can also assure you that there are landmen out there who have been doing this for years that "just don't get it."
I know all of the history from the land grant until now, except the 270 acres in the second county. I didn't find out about until I drove back the 300 miles home. At this point, there are only 5 mineral owners. The 270 acres was sold when the grandmother had it.
I agree, a complete a chain of title that would clarifying the mineral estate would be the best thing to do. After I get this last bit of info, I may just do that. The fact that I'm 300 miles from the counties doesn't help much either.
The clerk told me that if the minerals weren't listed as sold, they are retained, or at least something like that. Thanks for the response.
Dave Quincy said:
In a situation where a part or section is split by county lines, at least that part should be of record in both counties, but you never know. However, in a situation like that, the records of both counties should be checked. Dave Quincy said:
You wouldn't get it because that isn't what the people who tried to explain it for you do for a living. They wouldn't be the ones to ask that. I think different links have been posted here that might attempt to answer your question.
I would say that it just depends. One example would be a mineral reservation in a deed. It is possible that in 1921, Great Ganddaddy sold about 1,000 acres but in the deed he reserved all of the oil, gas and minerals.
Are you free and clear? No. In 1929, at the height of the Great Depression, Granddaddy may have sold 1/8th of the minerals in order to buy some seed and cattle to help feed his family. In 1938, he may have sold 1/4th of the minerals.
Long answer short. You would need to complete a chain of title that would clarify the mineral estate. Learning to use the Grantor/Grantee indexes in the Office of County Clerk would be a good place to start.
Can anyone do that? Since I became a member here, I have seen some replies that encourage folks such as yourself, and tell you that you can. Personally, I have my doubts that someone who has never tried to run out a tract of land before, can do an accurate job on that. (especially if the mineral estate is very fractured)
I can also assure you that there are landmen out there who have been doing this for years that "just don't get it."
She might mean in the deed. Not sure. I wasn't there to hear her reply. If I was, she wouldn't be the one that I would have asked. If she did mean in the deed, she's nuts. Sometimes a deed recites all prior mineral reservations (activity). Quite often, it doesn't. Very common language on that is "this deed is subject to all prior mineral reservations (if any)." That doesn't tell you much.
You would have been better off interupting a landman and asking them. Some are nice and will answer basic questions for you. Most would not have the time to do it for you, as they have their own research and deadlines.
Several counties have online records where you don't have to drive all the way there. You might call the county and ask them what they have online or how far back.
I wasn’t going to bother the landmen that were there for freebies. Besides, they looked busy.
Unfortunately, the first county has no online services at all and the second doesn’t go back far enough. I guess I’ll have to make a trip back out there. I’m pretty sure the grandmother retained the minerals, she did on the rest of it. Maybe she didn’t, I don’t know. The operator we are leased with just drilled a horizontal less than a mile away. I would like to get the 270 acres leased if it is ours.
Thank you for your response.
Identify yourself as a mineral owner with possible open acreage. In certain areas they might be more than willing to help you. Like vultures.
G T said:
I wasn't going to bother the landmen that were there for freebies. Besides, they looked busy.
Unfortunately, the first county has no online services at all and the second doesn't go back far enough. I guess I'll have to make a trip back out there. I'm pretty sure the grandmother retained the minerals, she did on the rest of it. Maybe she didn't, I don't know. The operator we are leased with just drilled a horizontal less than a mile away. I would like to get the 270 acres leased if it is ours. Thank you for your response.
One last thing, your posting jogged my memory about something. It was years ago in a county down along the Texas Gulf Coast. I was doing some research in the vault when a lady walked in and asked the deputy clerk, "How can I find out if I own the minerals?" It happened to be a male deputy clerk named Ray or Roy, but that shouldn't have made any difference. He gave her the best reply that anyone could have given her. He said, "Oh, we don't do that here. That's what all these people do for a living." As he pointed at some of us with his finger. I can't tell you how many times I have seen county and deputy clerks give unqualified type advice to people walking in off the street about minerals. The advice is usually wrong. The guy or clerk that time said what he should have said. It was the best non-advice I have ever heard in a courthouse. G T said:
I wasn't going to bother the landmen that were there for freebies. Besides, they looked busy.
Unfortunately, the first county has no online services at all and the second doesn't go back far enough. I guess I'll have to make a trip back out there. I'm pretty sure the grandmother retained the minerals, she did on the rest of it. Maybe she didn't, I don't know. The operator we are leased with just drilled a horizontal less than a mile away. I would like to get the 270 acres leased if it is ours. Thank you for your response.
I certainly do not want to take the beans off the table of a landman, but I don’t want to approach one saying we have minerals without at least something on paper that backs me up first. I do appreciate your help. Thank you very much.
I've helped folks before while not expecting anything in return. I'm not one of those people who always feels that they have to split a dime in half, nor would I want to be. You can't take it with you anyway.
Your posting did bring back numerous memories. There were more than a few times where the advice by a courthouse employee was so weak, that I actually dropped what I was doing to follow the person or people out to their car, in an effort to correct or set them straight on what they were wanting to know regarding a mineral type question. I felt sorry for them, and they always were very appreciative.
On a totally unrelated note, one time I was in Clerk's Office working, and a kid who had just turned 18 walked in wanting to register for the draft. The lady at the desk tried to steer him toward an Army recruiting station. I had to pull him aside and said, "Hey kid, I think that you are just wanting to register, not join up." I really believe that the county employee meant well.
Also, look at the wording in your lease to see if the oil company will argue they also leased the 270 acres on the other side of the county line. If not, you should be able to go back to the company and lease the additional 270. It is usually in the paragraph where it describes the land being leased.
LOL at the kid. Mr. Caldwell thank you for your response. That’s good advise, though I don’t think it mentioned the 270 ac.
The great grandfather bought the land, school fund grantee, I think.
When he passed, his 9 kids inherited it, one being my wife’s grandfather. The grandfather inherited about 500 ac and purchased the balance from his siblings, a total of about 1300 ac.
I don’t know how he managed to own the minerals on the land he purchased from his siblings, but he was on the 1000 ac., it would seem he would have been on the 270 ac. also.
He had a well on the original 500 ac., one of two producing wells in the original 5.5 sections. There were one or two more producers nearby. I think they were drilled in the early 60s and produced until the early 90s.
Well, she leased a couple years ago and are still under the lease.
A few months later, I noticed a well had been permitted about a mile west of us. So I began watching it on RRC. It was permitted as a 9000 ft vertical wildcat. Shortly after, it was re-permitted as a horizontal, then it’s status became a shut in producer. It had electric logs ran, but made confidential for two more years. This well went through 3 operators, the 3rd being a very well known operator. They filed to p&a the well. Shortly after that, they permitted a horizontal almost right beside it. That really got my attention. This large operator , who holds our lease, just purchased a brand new well, current logs, core data, leases and then spent a lot of money drilling and fracking a horizontal less than a mile from us.
I have not seen any completion results yet.
I looked at old well records all around there and her minerals have the same formation records as the wells around the horizontal, which absolutely means nothing, but adds to the excitement.
Again thank you both for your help, it is very appreciated.
There are lots of problems with parcels that lie in more than one county. Often times, instruments (deeds, mortgages, leases, etc) are only filed in one county, and not the other (by accident / error). Sometimes the legal description for a parcel will leave out the fact that it exists in two different counties as well, which only adds to the confusion.
Mr Kitchen, that reminded me how I found that out the hard way the first time I went there. I only had two days to research two court houses 30 miles apart. At was, at the minimum, a 600 mile round trip. That was a lot more work than I thought it would be. I absolutely knew nothing about that and know very little more now. This will be my 3rd trip.
Mr. Caldwell, I looked at the lease and sure enough it said “all of section” which was situated in both counties, but it didn’t have the 270 acres listed. The 270ac is all in the second county.
Look in the probate book in both countries. Then see if each co clerk office has a mineral book, a misc book.
You can research your minerals, but it does take time to learn how. I live over 300 miles from lots of my land/minerals, but I make a trip several times a year just to check records. You won't believe all the mistakes I find. Each County does there records differently, so that makes it a little harder. But since you know the history of the minerals and the names, you shouldn't have any problems. Also, if the person at the co clerk records aren't welling to tell you how there records work, go to the co judge office and see if they will show you. I had to do that in one country.
I found a mistake. The lease said all of the west half of the section. At one time, the family owned all of the surface of the west half. The great grand father purchased 40 ac out of that west half without the minerals. We leased 40 ac of minerals that don’t belong to us.
Not sure what to do about that.