You can tell that we are trying to get our records correct. In comparing our existing records with what was included in our dad’s probated will, we discovered some minerals that were not listed in the final decree (our mistake, not the attorney’s). How do we amend or correct the probate to include these newly discovered mineral interests?
Check the probate order and see if it addresses the disposition of items not listed. You may find it does!
Actually, that isn't that big of a deal. The fact that they are left off the inventory doesn't cut you out.
You will still be the record owners.
Of course the probate will address the disposition. That wasn't the question. The question was what if certain mineral interests were left off the inventory. The right answer is that it happens all the time, and isn't that big of a deal.
Probates are based on the language in wills and applicable state laws. In my direct experience, if a will distributes "mineral rights including . . . . ", the probate order should do the same. Rick is right, as always. In my experience, 12,000 acres in another county was not included in the list but by recording the probate in the omitted county, the heirs were found by the leasing company due to the language in the probate court order.
Check the language and then determine what action is required. Pubic notice is important for the future title searches. It can be a very big deal.
I have found in fact thru my own experience some will lease tracts that were left out on a probate final decree but NOT all will and even some of those that will lease will not pay royalties. There are many that have insisted the exact legal description be listed in the list of minerals or distribution property or they would not even lease mine. It's obvious how, should you decide to do it correctly, hire an attorney.
I agreed with him. The probate most likely did address the disposition of the estate by virtue of a residuary clause. It was said or written that the attorney prepared the will. It most likely was in there. You can't dispute that it wasn't, or declare anyone the winner or the loser of the discussion because you haven't read the will. You are also neither an attorney or a landman.
As far as leasing it, if record title brings it in to the testator, and the will devises it to the beneficiaries, there would be no reason not to lease it if there was a residuary clause, and everything not listed was properly disposed of.
The fact that the interest wouldn't be described on the inventory would not make it non-leasable.
It's not that big of a deal.
Gary L. Hutchinson said:
Probates are based on the language in wills and applicable state laws. In my direct experience, if a will distributes "mineral rights including . . . . ", the probate order should do the same. Rick is right, as always. In my experience, 12,000 acres in another county was not included in the list but by recording the probate in the omitted county, the heirs were found by the leasing company due to the language in the probate court order.
Check the language and then determine what action is required. Pubic notice is important for the future title searches. It can be a very big deal.
Gary L Hutchinson
Minerals Management
There you have it, Mr. Quincy would lease minerals the minerals from you but many real operators will not, but from the sound of his statement he doesn't sound very certain. I had to quiet title each of mine to get several real operators to take the leases. It was a big deal to me and to the Operator/Lessee.
That's great. Would beat them out of a valid lease. That would be an absolute certainty.
Tim Metz said:
There you have it, Mr. Quincy would lease minerals the minerals from you but many real operators will not, but from the sound of his statement he doesn't sound very certain. I had to quiet title each of mine to get several real operators to take the leases. It was a big deal to me and to the Operator/Lessee.
What a joke, In Oklahoma they'll just pool your certainty. You must have a lot of experience winning judgement in court with such cases to be so certain.
That would be by definition an adversarial procedure, right? Do the beneficiaries file a lawsuit against themselves?
Tim Metz said:
What a joke, In Oklahoma they'll just pool your certainty. You must have a lot of experience winning judgement in court with such cases to be so certain.
I'll draw you a picture and spell it out for you so perhaps you'll understand, the interest (owner of record and you) is pooled because of what the operator/lessee believes to be title issues (you say you are certain are not a big deal) and if there is a producing well the royalties are placed in suspense, so you only have one choice and that is to go to court to re-open the probate, do quiet title or file suit against the operator to defend your certainty. Beneficiaries file against themselves, where in the world did you come up with that? Do you live in Colorado or Washington?
I don't work in OK. The original question came from Pearland, TX. I don't see where OK has anything to do with the discussion. Unless it is because that is all you know about.
Dave Quincy said:
That would be by definition an adversarial procedure, right? Do the beneficiaries file a lawsuit against themselves?
Tim Metz said:What a joke, In Oklahoma they'll just pool your certainty. You must have a lot of experience winning judgement in court with such cases to be so certain.
I didn't see where Ann wrote the minerals are in the state of Texas like you think you read and I didn't assume by her profile where they might be. I agree with you, I can see where you are limited in your knowledge but I will not hold it against you. Also, I didn't limit my answer to one state as you seem to suggest. I believe it would be better if you confined your answers to subjects you have experience in.
I never saw where she said that they weren't in Texas.
Tim Metz said:
I didn't see where Ann wrote the minerals are in the state of Texas like you think you read and I didn't assume by her profile where they might be. I agree with you, I can see where you are limited in your knowledge but I will not hold it against you. Also, I didn't limit my answer to one state as you seem to suggest. I believe it would be better if you confined your answers to subjects you have experience in.
She never said that they were in OK.
Just for clarification, our minerals are in OK. I don’t believe there is any residuary clause when the will was probated in OK although I’m not sure how it should read but I will review it again. (we hired an OKC attorney who was supposed to know about minerals and probate) We have to go back anyway to probate a couple of older wills (before Dad’s) so maybe the omitted minerals can be addressed at the same time. I think we will use a different attorney!
Dear Tim,
Did you do what many of us do when the poster neglects to put the state where the properties are located?
From Ann Cole's Profile page
- I am a ...
- Mineral Owner Only
- In what States do you own minerals?
- Oklahoma
I would check that for sure. If the atty. is competent he might have put one in there. If there is, it won't matter if your minerals are on the planet Mars, they will pass according to the terms of the will.
Another idea would be to have the executor file an affidavit explaining the omission and describing the property as being a part of your father's estate.
Ann Cole said:
Just for clarification, our minerals are in OK. I don't believe there is any residuary clause when the will was probated in OK although I'm not sure how it should read but I will review it again. (we hired an OKC attorney who was supposed to know about minerals and probate) We have to go back anyway to probate a couple of older wills (before Dad's) so maybe the omitted minerals can be addressed at the same time. I think we will use a different attorney!
Here is the clause which sounds like a residuary clause — “whether inventoried or not and any later discovered assets…” . one last question for you folks - we obtained from the county the will and final decree from 1976 but neither contains a list of minerals or an inventory of assets which would help us make sure we have everything accounted for. Upon contacting the executor which is a bank trust department, they tell us they cannot locate the probate documents. Wouldn’t a list of minerals have to be filed in each county where the minerals are located? How else would the county know what was being transferred? Should we go back to the county and request additional documents? If so, what should we ask for?