Does a landman do research from present time and go backwards, or from statehood foreward? The reason I'm asking is that back in the 1920's my great uncle reserved a working interest in royalties he sold. When the person he deeded it to sold it later on, he did not disclose my great uncle's reservation. Therefore, we are being told by a couple of oil companies that our uncle is not in the chain of title. He is, however. The person researching these mineral interests back in the 1970's and 80's just did not go back far enough. Will this have to be settled in a court of law? Or is there is a good chance with us providing the documentation proving our family still owns the working interest that we can begin being paid on these royalty interests?
It really depends on the landman. It ultimately results in the same answer no matter where he/she begins, as long as they are capable.
As far as your problem at hand; If you can provide them with the chain of title, it shouldn't necessitate an attorney or legal action, but I don't know all of the details of the reservation.
By now you probably should have already mailed the documentation supporting your position via certified mail to the oil company operator(s) in question, the ones who have already told you that he is not in the chain of title. If they don't accept your documentation, then legal consultation may become your next step.
As for the other questions, you don't really know. It would mostly depend not on the landman necessarily, but more on his instructions at the time.
Thank you. One more question. On a Division Order opinion, are the people who are listed with their percentages the ones who have actually signed the docs for the oil companies, or are they everyone who should be getting paid, whether they have signed oil co documents or not?
Jordan Murray said:
It really depends on the landman. It ultimately results in the same answer no matter where he/she begins, as long as they are capable.
As far as your problem at hand; If you can provide them with the chain of title, it shouldn't necessitate an attorney or legal action, but I don't know all of the details of the reservation.
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have mailed the documentation to the two operators, and got replies back very quickly. One of the operators is sending his own landman out to research the property. The other one said we needed to get another mineral opinion done. Their responses sounded reasonable to me. What do you think?
Dave Quincy said:
By now you probably should have already mailed the documentation supporting your position via certified mail to the oil company operator(s) in question, the ones who have already told you that he is not in the chain of title. If they don't accept your documentation, then legal consultation may become your next step.
As for the other questions, you don't really know. It would mostly depend not on the landman necessarily, but more on his instructions at the time.
I don't know exactly what you sent them. One of the replies sounds a little better than the other one. Not sure what a mineral opinion is, or what it is in the context of their letter or conversation.
Stay after them, and hire an attorney to write a letter for you if things don't change.
One more question. Are the people listed on the division order with their percentage of interest only the people who have signed oil co docs or does it include everyone who has a royalty/interest in the well whether they have signed oil co docs or not?
Dave Quincy said:
I don't know exactly what you sent them. One of the replies sounds a little better than the other one. Not sure what a mineral opinion is, or what it is in the context of their letter or conversation.
Stay after them, and hire an attorney to write a letter for you if things don't change.
Additionally, I sent the oil co operators all the deeds, the probate, and affidavit of heirship. Maybe I used the wrong terminology calling it a mineral opinion. The operator said he needed "a chain of title from an attorney from the inception of the property to dispute the opinion we have". You said one sounds better than the other. Which one sounds the best to you??? Thank you again!
Sandy Day said:
One more question. Are the people listed on the division order with their percentage of interest only the people who have signed oil co docs or does it include everyone who has a royalty/interest in the well whether they have signed oil co docs or not?
Dave Quincy said:I don't know exactly what you sent them. One of the replies sounds a little better than the other one. Not sure what a mineral opinion is, or what it is in the context of their letter or conversation.
Stay after them, and hire an attorney to write a letter for you if things don't change.
By the way, we are consulting with an attorney(s). We are just doing a lot of the research ourselves so we are more knowledgeable (and informed) This also helps us know what questions to ask. I'm a real estate broker so this helps some also as far as understanding chain of title, etc. Mineral ownership is quite a bit different in some ways however from surface rights ownership.
Sandy Day said:
Additionally, I sent the oil co operators all the deeds, the probate, and affidavit of heirship. Maybe I used the wrong terminology calling it a mineral opinion. The operator said he needed "a chain of title from an attorney from the inception of the property to dispute the opinion we have". You said one sounds better than the other. Which one sounds the best to you??? Thank you again!
Sandy Day said:One more question. Are the people listed on the division order with their percentage of interest only the people who have signed oil co docs or does it include everyone who has a royalty/interest in the well whether they have signed oil co docs or not?
Dave Quincy said:I don't know exactly what you sent them. One of the replies sounds a little better than the other one. Not sure what a mineral opinion is, or what it is in the context of their letter or conversation.
Stay after them, and hire an attorney to write a letter for you if things don't change.
It sounds like the company who is sending the land nerd to check things out gave you the best reply. The company who told you to get a "mineral opinion" sounds like they are not being responsive enough, or are just trying to put it all on you. The Title Opinion thing sounds like B.S. I base this on what you have already sent them. They should now be aware of a red flag, pass that on to their land dept. or contractors, and in turn offer you a more responsible rebuttal. It sounds like you are doing all of the right things though.
I'm not sure if everyone on the D.O. has leased. Typically, they probably have. It would be very easy to check though. Much easier than running a full mineral title. Just run those names forward from about the date or dates you think the leases may have been taken - if they have all been recorded.
A reputable landman always goes back in time at least to the date of first production in that county, if not to sovereignty, and then comes FORWARD in time to the present looking for what are called outsales. For example, let's say A got land back in the Boomer/Sooner days, sold it to B, who sold it to C, who sold it to you (D). If I find the deed from C to D and then search for the deed from B to C, and then search for the deed from A to B, I find all those and read them and don't find any mineral, royalty, or working-interest reservations, I might conclude that D owns all the minerals and royalties at the present time. However, the title abstractor who concludes that might be making a HUGE mistake because somewhere along the way A, B, or C might have sold off part or all of their minerals, royalties, or working interests to somebody not at all involved in the chain of title for the Surface Estate. The only way to find outsales is to go backward in time and then come FORWARD.
Pete Wrench said:
A reputable landman always goes back in time at least to the date of first production in that county, if not to sovereignty, and then comes FORWARD in time to the present looking for what are called outsales. For example, let's say A got land back in the Boomer/Sooner days, sold it to B, who sold it to C, who sold it to you (D). If I find the deed from C to D and then search for the deed from B to C, and then search for the deed from A to B, I find all those and read them and don't find any mineral, royalty, or working-interest reservations, I might conclude that D owns all the minerals and royalties at the present time. However, the title abstractor who concludes that might be making a HUGE mistake because somewhere along the way A, B, or C might have sold off part or all of their minerals, royalties, or working interests to somebody not at all involved in the chain of title for the Surface Estate. The only way to find outsales is to go backward in time and then come FORWARD.
Thank you for your feedback. I don't think someone did all they should have researching title on a property which has a working interest reserved by our great uncle in 1927. He died in 1934. We are just now finding this working interest. All these years, our family has not been contacted even though there have been 4 or 5 wells we should have had interest in. There are two wells producing now, so we have begun the "battle" with the two oil operators. You are correct in that the some of the minerals got separated from surface. However, it was very easy to find as my sister and I found it. Not sure why the so called professionals seem to have not found. One of the operators for the now producing wells sent their landman out to look at title again. He said he did not "think" our uncle "meant" for it to be an actual working interest even though it said exactly that. Wow! It's my understanding our family is owed monies from all the way back to when the wells started producing, plus 6% interest, from the owner/operator. If it's found to be deliberate, we can get up to 12% interest. Sorry to be responding so late!
I would like to have my property research by a Landman. I think the oil company cannot decline your great uncle reservation. If your great uncle's name is listed in chain then it is sure that he is going to get mineral interest. I always check for the mineral interest, while dealing with any new property. Many a times, it is seen that after selling or buying a property, a third party turn up asking about the mineral rights and interest. My friend is a realtor Georgetown ky, who advices everyone to check for the complete traces of mineral interest on their properties.