Thanks so much for taking the time to respond! You have helped me immensely with some ‘ownership’ inquiries I had including what they’ll do even without us signing.
Where could we get a copy of the contract?
We received a letter from Cherokee Horn recently showing who among us hasn’t signed…I was wondering whether it’d be worthwhile to try and reach them. Sounds like it’s going to happen regardless.
Thanks so much again for your help. I’ll be searching for the contract
Melissa
Amelia said:
Hi Melissa,
Wish I had found you sooner, but we already signed. I would be happy to converse with you more and share the info I learned.
I completely oppose the drilling in residential areas and fear for the health of my boys, but I there were a few key things that made us decide to sign.
Mostly the information I learned from a friend’s husband who works for a driller helped me understand things a bit better but it was his reaction to the fact that we do indeed own our mineral rights that gave me pause. Before talking with him I thought it was interesting that we might own the rights, but after seeing his reaction and hearing his words, I felt that we needed to protect our mineral rights and have some sliver of control because the drilling is going to happen. Unless enough towns find that it is harmful and people are forced to stop or the gas prices drop, this will happen. Others stand to make too much money and they just don’t care.
My friend said if you don’t sign, they can pool you and take away your rights. Then you will have no say over what is happening at all - even on your own property. At least with a contract you have some protection and once they start drilling he told me to watch them like a hawk and complain to the rail road commission every time they violate even the smallest thing on the contract. He also said they will be taking out the gas under your house whether you sign our not so you might as well get some money that you can put in the bank. And the last thing he said was that owning your mineral rights today is very rare and you really have something so hold on to them for your future generations.
Now, I’m not here to convince anyone and I will cheer on anyone who wants to fight. But those comments gave me pause and after long discussions with my husband and a meeting with a lawyer, we gave up and signed. We aren’t happy about it, but we are somewhat protected for what that is worth. Now we will just have to wait and pray.
If you want more info, let me know and I’ll be happy to share what I know. The Central Park Neighborhood Association in our town was actually able to negotiate a good contract that they are using as their standard contract now. The lawyer was impressed with what was in it and only suggested 3 changes he would request. But he warned that Cherokee would probably refuse - which they did. It was nothing major so we went ahead with it. We did get $725 signing bonus. Not much but the landman brought the check with us and answered the questions we had. So for us it is done.
Melissa Farmer said:
Hello!
I am new to the site … wish I had found this instead of another. You sound like a person right down my street, Amelia. Reading your letter felt like I was reading my own except I’m a mom of a 1 year old. My family has been searching for more information as well as people who care about the drilling being too close. We too live yards from what seems to be the same creek.
Hoping you will read this soon as it has been a while since your last posting. Please respond and maybe we can work together
Concerned Party #2
Amelia said:
Thanks Philip for your reply and info…your situations are interesting but I haven’t yet spoken with or worked with the landman that keeps contacting us, so our situation is a bit different. The lies I am talking about come in the form of their harassing and manipulative letters. Cherokee Horn is using very clever and careful wording to make you think one thing when you read the letter, but if you look carefully, you realize that’s not the case. For example, they have sent us letters stating that almost all of our neighbors have leased and we have no reason to hold out, the map on the back shows an example of the leases they have collected…but when you look at the back of the letter, the map isn’t even our neighborhood or from our town! They also have stated firmly and clearly that if we do not sign we will never get any royalty and could never request it from anyone - even people here have said that that is not always the case and you can go to the RC to make a request. It’s these kind of bold statements that are not completely true but are designed to scare us into a decision we are not prepared to make that I take issue with. I could go on but I don’t have the time or the letters in front of me to give more specific examples. And really it doesn’t matter - it just complicates things and makes me confused about what the real truth is.
Thanks to everyone for all for the comments and info here. I haven’t been able to comment to everyone because I have been busy with work and doing research on the issue.
I have learned that determining if you own the mineral rights is difficult and confusing - to hire someone to figure it out is too expensive for us because we have such a small plot. If you do have the rights it’s in your best interest to sign a lease but not the standard one the landmen offer. It is suggested that you contact a lawyer but when I did he said the things he would change would be rejected and for the size of our land and the little money we would get, hiring him would cost too much. So, I feel stuck and a bit pigeon holed into a position I don’t like but will have to come to terms with. All the suggestions here about what to avoid in the lease are the most helpful as it looks like we will have to do our best to wade through the lease on our own, make requests and see what happens.
At this stage in our lives, our family just doesn’t have the time, energy or expertise to deal with all this but since it won’t go away we will have to do our best. So, all the comments here are really very much appreciated and are helping us try to make some hard decisions.
Thank you everyone!
Philip Wynne said:
NOT LEGAL ADVICE
P.S. As far as the concern about one’s lease’s being “flipped” to another company for a profit, I would never lease my own mineral rights before investigating the company who wants to lease them. I would want to know (a) are you a publicly traded company?, (b) what is your capitalization?, (c) what experience do you have drilling in this area? I was able to get a woman interested in my client’s lease after proving to her that the company who had made her what appeared to be a better deal had absolutely NO experience drilling a well anywhere in Texas. Keep in mind also that before signing a lease everything is negotiable. Ask the company if they will agree to a clause prohibiting them from assigning your lease to another unaffiliated company. If your offer is from a “lease flipper,” they will go into orbit with that request, although the reverse is not necessarily true.
I don’t know if you can still get the pdf off the web, burried in a site somewhere. I downloaded it as soon as they decided on a contract and 700+ residence signed with them (truly a sad day!) last June I think. I’ve been holding on to the file ever since just in case. I would be happy to email the PDF to you if you can share an address - not sure if I can do it through here.
I reviewed the contract we signed and it appears to be identical to the PDF I have. Not sure if they will work with you on any changes or negotiations. I think it depends on where you are. Taylor West (sound familiar?) said he has moved on to 3040 close to Flower Mound area and isn’t really working upper Lewisville anymore (75067 zip) but he’s still trying to secure any last signatures. When we asked about making any changes he gave us (in my opinion) a line about not being able to change the contract because everyone else signed this one and they couldn’t give us a different deal. I’m not sure how accurate that is. I mean, they obviously WANT our sigs cause they are expending a lot of time bugging us, but they don’t really have to have everyone’s signature to drill. Now, if you are in a key spot for where they want the drill to go, it might really mean something to get an individual to sign, but otherwise they can by-pass you with the drill (but still get the gas because once the shale is fracture, all the gas is released and captured in their pipes) or get petition the Railroad Commission to force pool you - rare but has been done in Texas.
You could consider going to everyone on your map who shows they haven’t signed and try to form a group and present a new contract offer to Cherokee Horn - kind of an all or nothing deal. I wanted to do that but just didn’t have the time with a full time job and 2 little boys (of course my intent was to put our foot down that we wouldn’t sign, not necessarily get a better contract). But it still might not make a difference to them. Taylor did say that our Mayor has not signed yet, but was kind of rude about it and said he was holding out for more cash and would soon be left out all together. If you have the time, you might try contacting the Mayor too… I think until the drill starts there’s always hope. But my impression from Cherokee is that once they decide not to take anymore contracts then you are out - but I have no idea or impression of exactly when that would be!
If you have any other questions, even about the drilling process, etc then feel free to contact me here. I get emails when someone posts here. Since we signed, we’re kind of done but I’m always happy to share what I know. I wouldn’t try to get anyone to sign, I really didn’t want to and am not happy about it. But I am happy to share what I know.
Also, for peace of mind, we went to Hammerle Finley to have the contract reviewed and talk to a lawyer. Not completely necessary - I can tell you what he told us - but I think it helped us decide a little more. They were really great and offered a 1 hour consultation for $250 with an oil and gas specializing lawyer to review the contract and answer questions. I thought they were very kind and helpful!
Good luck, and pray they don’t drill! That’s what I am doing now. If the natural gas price will go under $4 Taylor said they would not drill at our site.
Melissa Farmer said:
Hi Amelia,
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond! You have helped me immensely with some ‘ownership’ inquiries I had including what they’ll do even without us signing.
Where could we get a copy of the contract?
We received a letter from Cherokee Horn recently showing who among us hasn’t signed…I was wondering whether it’d be worthwhile to try and reach them. Sounds like it’s going to happen regardless.
Thanks so much again for your help. I’ll be searching for the contract
Melissa
Amelia said:
Hi Melissa,
Wish I had found you sooner, but we already signed. I would be happy to converse with you more and share the info I learned.
I completely oppose the drilling in residential areas and fear for the health of my boys, but I there were a few key things that made us decide to sign.
Mostly the information I learned from a friend’s husband who works for a driller helped me understand things a bit better but it was his reaction to the fact that we do indeed own our mineral rights that gave me pause. Before talking with him I thought it was interesting that we might own the rights, but after seeing his reaction and hearing his words, I felt that we needed to protect our mineral rights and have some sliver of control because the drilling is going to happen. Unless enough towns find that it is harmful and people are forced to stop or the gas prices drop, this will happen. Others stand to make too much money and they just don’t care.
My friend said if you don’t sign, they can pool you and take away your rights. Then you will have no say over what is happening at all - even on your own property. At least with a contract you have some protection and once they start drilling he told me to watch them like a hawk and complain to the rail road commission every time they violate even the smallest thing on the contract. He also said they will be taking out the gas under your house whether you sign our not so you might as well get some money that you can put in the bank. And the last thing he said was that owning your mineral rights today is very rare and you really have something so hold on to them for your future generations.
Now, I’m not here to convince anyone and I will cheer on anyone who wants to fight. But those comments gave me pause and after long discussions with my husband and a meeting with a lawyer, we gave up and signed. We aren’t happy about it, but we are somewhat protected for what that is worth. Now we will just have to wait and pray.
If you want more info, let me know and I’ll be happy to share what I know. The Central Park Neighborhood Association in our town was actually able to negotiate a good contract that they are using as their standard contract now. The lawyer was impressed with what was in it and only suggested 3 changes he would request. But he warned that Cherokee would probably refuse - which they did. It was nothing major so we went ahead with it. We did get $725 signing bonus. Not much but the landman brought the check with us and answered the questions we had. So for us it is done.
Melissa Farmer said:
Hello!
I am new to the site … wish I had found this instead of another. You sound like a person right down my street, Amelia. Reading your letter felt like I was reading my own except I’m a mom of a 1 year old. My family has been searching for more information as well as people who care about the drilling being too close. We too live yards from what seems to be the same creek.
Hoping you will read this soon as it has been a while since your last posting. Please respond and maybe we can work together
Concerned Party #2
Amelia said:
Thanks Philip for your reply and info…your situations are interesting but I haven’t yet spoken with or worked with the landman that keeps contacting us, so our situation is a bit different. The lies I am talking about come in the form of their harassing and manipulative letters. Cherokee Horn is using very clever and careful wording to make you think one thing when you read the letter, but if you look carefully, you realize that’s not the case. For example, they have sent us letters stating that almost all of our neighbors have leased and we have no reason to hold out, the map on the back shows an example of the leases they have collected…but when you look at the back of the letter, the map isn’t even our neighborhood or from our town! They also have stated firmly and clearly that if we do not sign we will never get any royalty and could never request it from anyone - even people here have said that that is not always the case and you can go to the RC to make a request. It’s these kind of bold statements that are not completely true but are designed to scare us into a decision we are not prepared to make that I take issue with. I could go on but I don’t have the time or the letters in front of me to give more specific examples. And really it doesn’t matter - it just complicates things and makes me confused about what the real truth is.
Thanks to everyone for all for the comments and info here. I haven’t been able to comment to everyone because I have been busy with work and doing research on the issue.
I have learned that determining if you own the mineral rights is difficult and confusing - to hire someone to figure it out is too expensive for us because we have such a small plot. If you do have the rights it’s in your best interest to sign a lease but not the standard one the landmen offer. It is suggested that you contact a lawyer but when I did he said the things he would change would be rejected and for the size of our land and the little money we would get, hiring him would cost too much. So, I feel stuck and a bit pigeon holed into a position I don’t like but will have to come to terms with. All the suggestions here about what to avoid in the lease are the most helpful as it looks like we will have to do our best to wade through the lease on our own, make requests and see what happens.
At this stage in our lives, our family just doesn’t have the time, energy or expertise to deal with all this but since it won’t go away we will have to do our best. So, all the comments here are really very much appreciated and are helping us try to make some hard decisions.
Thank you everyone!
Philip Wynne said:
NOT LEGAL ADVICE
P.S. As far as the concern about one’s lease’s being “flipped” to another company for a profit, I would never lease my own mineral rights before investigating the company who wants to lease them. I would want to know (a) are you a publicly traded company?, (b) what is your capitalization?, (c) what experience do you have drilling in this area? I was able to get a woman interested in my client’s lease after proving to her that the company who had made her what appeared to be a better deal had absolutely NO experience drilling a well anywhere in Texas. Keep in mind also that before signing a lease everything is negotiable. Ask the company if they will agree to a clause prohibiting them from assigning your lease to another unaffiliated company. If your offer is from a “lease flipper,” they will go into orbit with that request, although the reverse is not necessarily true.
Do whatever you want, but Cherokee Horn has never drilled a well in the Barnett Shale, or probably anywhere else.
Jim
Melissa Farmer said:
Hi Amelia,
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond! You have helped me immensely with some ‘ownership’ inquiries I had including what they’ll do even without us signing.
Where could we get a copy of the contract?
We received a letter from Cherokee Horn recently showing who among us hasn’t signed…I was wondering whether it’d be worthwhile to try and reach them. Sounds like it’s going to happen regardless.
Thanks so much again for your help. I’ll be searching for the contract
Melissa
Amelia said:
Hi Melissa,
Wish I had found you sooner, but we already signed. I would be happy to converse with you more and share the info I learned.
I completely oppose the drilling in residential areas and fear for the health of my boys, but I there were a few key things that made us decide to sign.
Mostly the information I learned from a friend’s husband who works for a driller helped me understand things a bit better but it was his reaction to the fact that we do indeed own our mineral rights that gave me pause. Before talking with him I thought it was interesting that we might own the rights, but after seeing his reaction and hearing his words, I felt that we needed to protect our mineral rights and have some sliver of control because the drilling is going to happen. Unless enough towns find that it is harmful and people are forced to stop or the gas prices drop, this will happen. Others stand to make too much money and they just don’t care.
My friend said if you don’t sign, they can pool you and take away your rights. Then you will have no say over what is happening at all - even on your own property. At least with a contract you have some protection and once they start drilling he told me to watch them like a hawk and complain to the rail road commission every time they violate even the smallest thing on the contract. He also said they will be taking out the gas under your house whether you sign our not so you might as well get some money that you can put in the bank. And the last thing he said was that owning your mineral rights today is very rare and you really have something so hold on to them for your future generations.
Now, I’m not here to convince anyone and I will cheer on anyone who wants to fight. But those comments gave me pause and after long discussions with my husband and a meeting with a lawyer, we gave up and signed. We aren’t happy about it, but we are somewhat protected for what that is worth. Now we will just have to wait and pray.
If you want more info, let me know and I’ll be happy to share what I know. The Central Park Neighborhood Association in our town was actually able to negotiate a good contract that they are using as their standard contract now. The lawyer was impressed with what was in it and only suggested 3 changes he would request. But he warned that Cherokee would probably refuse - which they did. It was nothing major so we went ahead with it. We did get $725 signing bonus. Not much but the landman brought the check with us and answered the questions we had. So for us it is done.
Melissa Farmer said:
Hello!
I am new to the site … wish I had found this instead of another. You sound like a person right down my street, Amelia. Reading your letter felt like I was reading my own except I’m a mom of a 1 year old. My family has been searching for more information as well as people who care about the drilling being too close. We too live yards from what seems to be the same creek.
Hoping you will read this soon as it has been a while since your last posting. Please respond and maybe we can work together
Concerned Party #2
Amelia said:
Thanks Philip for your reply and info…your situations are interesting but I haven’t yet spoken with or worked with the landman that keeps contacting us, so our situation is a bit different. The lies I am talking about come in the form of their harassing and manipulative letters. Cherokee Horn is using very clever and careful wording to make you think one thing when you read the letter, but if you look carefully, you realize that’s not the case. For example, they have sent us letters stating that almost all of our neighbors have leased and we have no reason to hold out, the map on the back shows an example of the leases they have collected…but when you look at the back of the letter, the map isn’t even our neighborhood or from our town! They also have stated firmly and clearly that if we do not sign we will never get any royalty and could never request it from anyone - even people here have said that that is not always the case and you can go to the RC to make a request. It’s these kind of bold statements that are not completely true but are designed to scare us into a decision we are not prepared to make that I take issue with. I could go on but I don’t have the time or the letters in front of me to give more specific examples. And really it doesn’t matter - it just complicates things and makes me confused about what the real truth is.
Thanks to everyone for all for the comments and info here. I haven’t been able to comment to everyone because I have been busy with work and doing research on the issue.
I have learned that determining if you own the mineral rights is difficult and confusing - to hire someone to figure it out is too expensive for us because we have such a small plot. If you do have the rights it’s in your best interest to sign a lease but not the standard one the landmen offer. It is suggested that you contact a lawyer but when I did he said the things he would change would be rejected and for the size of our land and the little money we would get, hiring him would cost too much. So, I feel stuck and a bit pigeon holed into a position I don’t like but will have to come to terms with. All the suggestions here about what to avoid in the lease are the most helpful as it looks like we will have to do our best to wade through the lease on our own, make requests and see what happens.
At this stage in our lives, our family just doesn’t have the time, energy or expertise to deal with all this but since it won’t go away we will have to do our best. So, all the comments here are really very much appreciated and are helping us try to make some hard decisions.
Thank you everyone!
Philip Wynne said:
NOT LEGAL ADVICE
P.S. As far as the concern about one’s lease’s being “flipped” to another company for a profit, I would never lease my own mineral rights before investigating the company who wants to lease them. I would want to know (a) are you a publicly traded company?, (b) what is your capitalization?, (c) what experience do you have drilling in this area? I was able to get a woman interested in my client’s lease after proving to her that the company who had made her what appeared to be a better deal had absolutely NO experience drilling a well anywhere in Texas. Keep in mind also that before signing a lease everything is negotiable. Ask the company if they will agree to a clause prohibiting them from assigning your lease to another unaffiliated company. If your offer is from a “lease flipper,” they will go into orbit with that request, although the reverse is not necessarily true.
Sorry Jim, didn’t know I had to be specific about everything. I know well that Cherokee Horn isn’t a driller, they are a broker for the driller - Titan to be specific in our neighborhood. I typed here that they are going to drill for speed and I didn’t think it was necessary to specify Titan…I may have already mentioned it in an earlier post - not sure.
Jim said:
Do whatever you want, but Cherokee Horn has never drilled a well in the Barnett Shale, or probably anywhere else.
Jim
Melissa Farmer said:
Hi Amelia,
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond! You have helped me immensely with some ‘ownership’ inquiries I had including what they’ll do even without us signing.
Where could we get a copy of the contract?
We received a letter from Cherokee Horn recently showing who among us hasn’t signed…I was wondering whether it’d be worthwhile to try and reach them. Sounds like it’s going to happen regardless.
Thanks so much again for your help. I’ll be searching for the contract
Melissa
Amelia said:
Hi Melissa,
Wish I had found you sooner, but we already signed. I would be happy to converse with you more and share the info I learned.
I completely oppose the drilling in residential areas and fear for the health of my boys, but I there were a few key things that made us decide to sign.
Mostly the information I learned from a friend’s husband who works for a driller helped me understand things a bit better but it was his reaction to the fact that we do indeed own our mineral rights that gave me pause. Before talking with him I thought it was interesting that we might own the rights, but after seeing his reaction and hearing his words, I felt that we needed to protect our mineral rights and have some sliver of control because the drilling is going to happen. Unless enough towns find that it is harmful and people are forced to stop or the gas prices drop, this will happen. Others stand to make too much money and they just don’t care.
My friend said if you don’t sign, they can pool you and take away your rights. Then you will have no say over what is happening at all - even on your own property. At least with a contract you have some protection and once they start drilling he told me to watch them like a hawk and complain to the rail road commission every time they violate even the smallest thing on the contract. He also said they will be taking out the gas under your house whether you sign our not so you might as well get some money that you can put in the bank. And the last thing he said was that owning your mineral rights today is very rare and you really have something so hold on to them for your future generations.
Now, I’m not here to convince anyone and I will cheer on anyone who wants to fight. But those comments gave me pause and after long discussions with my husband and a meeting with a lawyer, we gave up and signed. We aren’t happy about it, but we are somewhat protected for what that is worth. Now we will just have to wait and pray.
If you want more info, let me know and I’ll be happy to share what I know. The Central Park Neighborhood Association in our town was actually able to negotiate a good contract that they are using as their standard contract now. The lawyer was impressed with what was in it and only suggested 3 changes he would request. But he warned that Cherokee would probably refuse - which they did. It was nothing major so we went ahead with it. We did get $725 signing bonus. Not much but the landman brought the check with us and answered the questions we had. So for us it is done.
Melissa Farmer said:
Hello!
I am new to the site … wish I had found this instead of another. You sound like a person right down my street, Amelia. Reading your letter felt like I was reading my own except I’m a mom of a 1 year old. My family has been searching for more information as well as people who care about the drilling being too close. We too live yards from what seems to be the same creek.
Hoping you will read this soon as it has been a while since your last posting. Please respond and maybe we can work together
Concerned Party #2
Amelia said:
Thanks Philip for your reply and info…your situations are interesting but I haven’t yet spoken with or worked with the landman that keeps contacting us, so our situation is a bit different. The lies I am talking about come in the form of their harassing and manipulative letters. Cherokee Horn is using very clever and careful wording to make you think one thing when you read the letter, but if you look carefully, you realize that’s not the case. For example, they have sent us letters stating that almost all of our neighbors have leased and we have no reason to hold out, the map on the back shows an example of the leases they have collected…but when you look at the back of the letter, the map isn’t even our neighborhood or from our town! They also have stated firmly and clearly that if we do not sign we will never get any royalty and could never request it from anyone - even people here have said that that is not always the case and you can go to the RC to make a request. It’s these kind of bold statements that are not completely true but are designed to scare us into a decision we are not prepared to make that I take issue with. I could go on but I don’t have the time or the letters in front of me to give more specific examples. And really it doesn’t matter - it just complicates things and makes me confused about what the real truth is.
Thanks to everyone for all for the comments and info here. I haven’t been able to comment to everyone because I have been busy with work and doing research on the issue.
I have learned that determining if you own the mineral rights is difficult and confusing - to hire someone to figure it out is too expensive for us because we have such a small plot. If you do have the rights it’s in your best interest to sign a lease but not the standard one the landmen offer. It is suggested that you contact a lawyer but when I did he said the things he would change would be rejected and for the size of our land and the little money we would get, hiring him would cost too much. So, I feel stuck and a bit pigeon holed into a position I don’t like but will have to come to terms with. All the suggestions here about what to avoid in the lease are the most helpful as it looks like we will have to do our best to wade through the lease on our own, make requests and see what happens.
At this stage in our lives, our family just doesn’t have the time, energy or expertise to deal with all this but since it won’t go away we will have to do our best. So, all the comments here are really very much appreciated and are helping us try to make some hard decisions.
Thank you everyone!
Philip Wynne said:
NOT LEGAL ADVICE
P.S. As far as the concern about one’s lease’s being “flipped” to another company for a profit, I would never lease my own mineral rights before investigating the company who wants to lease them. I would want to know (a) are you a publicly traded company?, (b) what is your capitalization?, (c) what experience do you have drilling in this area? I was able to get a woman interested in my client’s lease after proving to her that the company who had made her what appeared to be a better deal had absolutely NO experience drilling a well anywhere in Texas. Keep in mind also that before signing a lease everything is negotiable. Ask the company if they will agree to a clause prohibiting them from assigning your lease to another unaffiliated company. If your offer is from a “lease flipper,” they will go into orbit with that request, although the reverse is not necessarily true.
I’ve been searching for the pdf but to no avail. Unfortunately we didn’t move in until a year after they started the ‘campaigning’ - Please email the pdf to melissabfarmer@gmail.com when you get a chance. I’m with you on wishing they’d never start! The only reason we’d sign is to ensure we have ‘some rights’ - could care less about the money, you know?
Much appreciated
Melissa
Amelia said:
Hey Melissa,
I don’t know if you can still get the pdf off the web, burried in a site somewhere. I downloaded it as soon as they decided on a contract and 700+ residence signed with them (truly a sad day!) last June I think. I’ve been holding on to the file ever since just in case. I would be happy to email the PDF to you if you can share an address - not sure if I can do it through here.
I reviewed the contract we signed and it appears to be identical to the PDF I have. Not sure if they will work with you on any changes or negotiations. I think it depends on where you are. Taylor West (sound familiar?) said he has moved on to 3040 close to Flower Mound area and isn’t really working upper Lewisville anymore (75067 zip) but he’s still trying to secure any last signatures. When we asked about making any changes he gave us (in my opinion) a line about not being able to change the contract because everyone else signed this one and they couldn’t give us a different deal. I’m not sure how accurate that is. I mean, they obviously WANT our sigs cause they are expending a lot of time bugging us, but they don’t really have to have everyone’s signature to drill. Now, if you are in a key spot for where they want the drill to go, it might really mean something to get an individual to sign, but otherwise they can by-pass you with the drill (but still get the gas because once the shale is fracture, all the gas is released and captured in their pipes) or get petition the Railroad Commission to force pool you - rare but has been done in Texas.
You could consider going to everyone on your map who shows they haven’t signed and try to form a group and present a new contract offer to Cherokee Horn - kind of an all or nothing deal. I wanted to do that but just didn’t have the time with a full time job and 2 little boys (of course my intent was to put our foot down that we wouldn’t sign, not necessarily get a better contract). But it still might not make a difference to them. Taylor did say that our Mayor has not signed yet, but was kind of rude about it and said he was holding out for more cash and would soon be left out all together. If you have the time, you might try contacting the Mayor too… I think until the drill starts there’s always hope. But my impression from Cherokee is that once they decide not to take anymore contracts then you are out - but I have no idea or impression of exactly when that would be!
If you have any other questions, even about the drilling process, etc then feel free to contact me here. I get emails when someone posts here. Since we signed, we’re kind of done but I’m always happy to share what I know. I wouldn’t try to get anyone to sign, I really didn’t want to and am not happy about it. But I am happy to share what I know.
Also, for peace of mind, we went to Hammerle Finley to have the contract reviewed and talk to a lawyer. Not completely necessary - I can tell you what he told us - but I think it helped us decide a little more. They were really great and offered a 1 hour consultation for $250 with an oil and gas specializing lawyer to review the contract and answer questions. I thought they were very kind and helpful!
Good luck, and pray they don’t drill! That’s what I am doing now. If the natural gas price will go under $4 Taylor said they would not drill at our site.
Melissa Farmer said:
Hi Amelia,
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond! You have helped me immensely with some ‘ownership’ inquiries I had including what they’ll do even without us signing.
Where could we get a copy of the contract?
We received a letter from Cherokee Horn recently showing who among us hasn’t signed…I was wondering whether it’d be worthwhile to try and reach them. Sounds like it’s going to happen regardless.
Thanks so much again for your help. I’ll be searching for the contract
Melissa
Amelia said:
Hi Melissa,
Wish I had found you sooner, but we already signed. I would be happy to converse with you more and share the info I learned.
I completely oppose the drilling in residential areas and fear for the health of my boys, but I there were a few key things that made us decide to sign.
Mostly the information I learned from a friend’s husband who works for a driller helped me understand things a bit better but it was his reaction to the fact that we do indeed own our mineral rights that gave me pause. Before talking with him I thought it was interesting that we might own the rights, but after seeing his reaction and hearing his words, I felt that we needed to protect our mineral rights and have some sliver of control because the drilling is going to happen. Unless enough towns find that it is harmful and people are forced to stop or the gas prices drop, this will happen. Others stand to make too much money and they just don’t care.
My friend said if you don’t sign, they can pool you and take away your rights. Then you will have no say over what is happening at all - even on your own property. At least with a contract you have some protection and once they start drilling he told me to watch them like a hawk and complain to the rail road commission every time they violate even the smallest thing on the contract. He also said they will be taking out the gas under your house whether you sign our not so you might as well get some money that you can put in the bank. And the last thing he said was that owning your mineral rights today is very rare and you really have something so hold on to them for your future generations.
Now, I’m not here to convince anyone and I will cheer on anyone who wants to fight. But those comments gave me pause and after long discussions with my husband and a meeting with a lawyer, we gave up and signed. We aren’t happy about it, but we are somewhat protected for what that is worth. Now we will just have to wait and pray.
If you want more info, let me know and I’ll be happy to share what I know. The Central Park Neighborhood Association in our town was actually able to negotiate a good contract that they are using as their standard contract now. The lawyer was impressed with what was in it and only suggested 3 changes he would request. But he warned that Cherokee would probably refuse - which they did. It was nothing major so we went ahead with it. We did get $725 signing bonus. Not much but the landman brought the check with us and answered the questions we had. So for us it is done.
Melissa Farmer said:
Hello!
I am new to the site … wish I had found this instead of another. You sound like a person right down my street, Amelia. Reading your letter felt like I was reading my own except I’m a mom of a 1 year old. My family has been searching for more information as well as people who care about the drilling being too close. We too live yards from what seems to be the same creek.
Hoping you will read this soon as it has been a while since your last posting. Please respond and maybe we can work together
Concerned Party #2
Amelia said:
Thanks Philip for your reply and info…your situations are interesting but I haven’t yet spoken with or worked with the landman that keeps contacting us, so our situation is a bit different. The lies I am talking about come in the form of their harassing and manipulative letters. Cherokee Horn is using very clever and careful wording to make you think one thing when you read the letter, but if you look carefully, you realize that’s not the case. For example, they have sent us letters stating that almost all of our neighbors have leased and we have no reason to hold out, the map on the back shows an example of the leases they have collected…but when you look at the back of the letter, the map isn’t even our neighborhood or from our town! They also have stated firmly and clearly that if we do not sign we will never get any royalty and could never request it from anyone - even people here have said that that is not always the case and you can go to the RC to make a request. It’s these kind of bold statements that are not completely true but are designed to scare us into a decision we are not prepared to make that I take issue with. I could go on but I don’t have the time or the letters in front of me to give more specific examples. And really it doesn’t matter - it just complicates things and makes me confused about what the real truth is.
Thanks to everyone for all for the comments and info here. I haven’t been able to comment to everyone because I have been busy with work and doing research on the issue.
I have learned that determining if you own the mineral rights is difficult and confusing - to hire someone to figure it out is too expensive for us because we have such a small plot. If you do have the rights it’s in your best interest to sign a lease but not the standard one the landmen offer. It is suggested that you contact a lawyer but when I did he said the things he would change would be rejected and for the size of our land and the little money we would get, hiring him would cost too much. So, I feel stuck and a bit pigeon holed into a position I don’t like but will have to come to terms with. All the suggestions here about what to avoid in the lease are the most helpful as it looks like we will have to do our best to wade through the lease on our own, make requests and see what happens.
At this stage in our lives, our family just doesn’t have the time, energy or expertise to deal with all this but since it won’t go away we will have to do our best. So, all the comments here are really very much appreciated and are helping us try to make some hard decisions.
Thank you everyone!
Philip Wynne said:
NOT LEGAL ADVICE
P.S. As far as the concern about one’s lease’s being “flipped” to another company for a profit, I would never lease my own mineral rights before investigating the company who wants to lease them. I would want to know (a) are you a publicly traded company?, (b) what is your capitalization?, (c) what experience do you have drilling in this area? I was able to get a woman interested in my client’s lease after proving to her that the company who had made her what appeared to be a better deal had absolutely NO experience drilling a well anywhere in Texas. Keep in mind also that before signing a lease everything is negotiable. Ask the company if they will agree to a clause prohibiting them from assigning your lease to another unaffiliated company. If your offer is from a “lease flipper,” they will go into orbit with that request, although the reverse is not necessarily true.
