yes, mr kennedy you are on to something. i think you are correct.
jhh
r w kennedy said:
Public notice still leaves you with clouded title.
Dave Quincy said:
Why can't the oil company scan the check, mail the lessor a copy, and then mail the original check when they receive the original lease?
I wish someone would reply to the question. Since they won't, I will answer it. IF THEY DON'T PAY YOU, THEY DON'T HAVE A VALID LEASE DUE TO LACK OF CONSIDERATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It would be very easy for a lessor to give public notice of that.
While the title is clouded due to a filed invalid lease is it not possible to be leased by another company after an Affidavit of Non-Payment of Bonus has been filed?
And /or does the clouded title prevent royalty from being paid until the title is clear?
Wilson, you could lease and receive a bonus, but do you honestly expect them to pay royalty with that cloud on your title? Soon or late the mineral owner will incur legal costs.
Wilson Inc said:
While the title is clouded due to a filed invalid lease is it not possible to be leased by another company after an Affidavit of Non-Payment of Bonus has been filed?
And /or does the clouded title prevent royalty from being paid until the title is clear?
Maybe I have just been doing it for too long. If an entity wants to go through the trouble of running title, a/k/a determining mineral ownership, having a landman put on a smile and a shoeshine, successfully negotiate a lease in return for a check, by having the landman do a song and dance for the mineral owner. Well, after all of that, they usually send the money.
Dave, Your talking about the honest landman and Oil Co. out there and as I'm sure you know, some are not! I guess I've had the unfortunate opportunity of dealing with too many crooks in my lifetime, so I like to see the cash in my hand, first!!
Dave, there are alot of people who don't get paid, many too embarassed to say. I personally have executed 3 leases that I have not been paid for, two of which were recorded, one of which was voluntarily released after I talking to the lessee for 4 months and finally telling them my lawyer was filing the case by the end of the week. I had that release in 4 days, one still isn't resolved. I've never been paid for a lease, never had a draft honored, nor has my brother. I will see your Kim got her check and raise you 1,000 Michigan mineral owners who leased to Chesapeak who did not. You could read about Bakken Exploration LLC and the cease and desist from the ND A G's office and probably a few more companies. I don't believe that Shale Exploration LLC paid everyone when and as they were supposed to either.
Any first year law student at St. Mary's School of Law in San Antonio would know that a lease is a contract. For a valid contract to be formed, there needs to be an offer, acceptance, and consideration.
If the agreed upon consideration isn't forthcoming, then there is no valid lease. If they file it, the mineral owner can file something giving public notice that no consideration was received, and that the tract is open for lease.
A release would be better, but not necessary to give public notice.
You have never been paid? Start dealing with more reputable people.
There is also a criminal angle. Taking and filing leases without making payment where there was a promise of consideration may constitute fraud.
I would never pay anyone before I got the lease. Owning minerals doesn't make an honest person either.
I would hand them the check while they handed me the lease, but if they were out of town, forget it. I wouldn't get the lease before I would risk looking like an idiot by mailing a check before I had the lease in hand.
"Yeah Dave, this is Bill, V.P. Land at Great Expectations Oil & Gas. Trista over in accounting said that R.W. Kennedy cashed that $50,000.00 bonus check. Are you going to bring his lease in when you swing by the office on Monday?"
"YOU DID WHATTTTTTTTTTT??????????? You stupid Son of a b___h! You mailed him the check and havent't gotten back the lease yet????"
r w kennedy said:
I guess I should not do business with companies like KOG then.
I guess you are right Dave, even though you have a copy of the lease showing a signature and notarization, presumably a copy of the check you sent out with "for execution and delivery of an oil and gas lease for the captioned lands" with the legal description/s on the check stub and the cancelled check back, and you can file a memorandum of lease, there is nothing the poor, poor lessee can do. Like I said, the lessor had better keep that lease safe so he can contest when you start paying him 5% royalty. LOL
A memorandum of lease is essentially worthless unless signed by lessor.
I'm just telling you what my personal policies have been for many years now. I would never send the check first, and cross my fingers hoping that they will return the lease back. Never have. Never will.
They can return the executed lease in a stamped, self-addressed envelope that I include in the lease package, knowing that until they receive the consideration, there is no valid lease.
I have never seen a memorandum of lease with the lessors signature on it. Lessors sign the lease, lessees record the memorandum of lease.
Dave Quincy said:
A memorandum of lease is essentially worthless unless signed by lessor.
I'm just telling you what my personal policies have been for many years now. I would never send the check first, and cross my fingers hoping that they will return the lease back. Never have. Never will.
They can return the executed lease in a stamped, self-addressed envelope that I include in the lease package, knowing that until they receive the consideration, there is no valid lease.
I have never seen a memo of lease not signed by Lessor. It wouldn't make any sense otherwise. They are the only one who has the legal standing to sign one. The whole purpose is for the mineral/owner lessor to acknowledge to lessee/oil co. that a lease has been executed with a certain primary term, and that basically the other terms of the lease will not be made public record. The lessee might sign it also, but it is the lessor who executes it.
Dave, the whole purpose of a memorandum of lease is to give constructive notice that a lease exists and the primary term of the lease and of course the legal description. It need not be signed by the lessor.
I'm starting to wonder how many memorandum of lease you have seen.
I really wish you were right about this, it would give me even more of a bone to pick with those unscrupulous billion dollar companies that you told me I should not deal with.
Dave Quincy said:
I have never seen a memo of lease not signed by Lessor. It wouldn't make any sense otherwise. They are the only one who has the legal standing to sign one. The whole purpose is for the mineral/owner lessor to acknowledge to lessee/oil co. that a lease has been executed with a certain primary term, and that basically the other terms of the lease will not be made public record. The lessee might sign it also, but it is the lessor who executes it.
Mr. Quincy, I enjoy the banter you and R W have.Its just entertainment for me.I've been looking at the forum for at least a few months before joiming.I would and will hold my little brothers feet to the fire over telling a story.I can tell you many things he says, that you appear to shake your head at actually happen.The whole truth is between us collectively we have not been paid on a lease.I have a memorandom of lease recorded in Mckenzie county that has never been recorded.No consideration ever paid.just like Paul Harvey would say heres the rest of the story,Only I'm not going to tell it.I really hope you dont understand the concept of being crooked or underhanded and from some of your answers I really lean to the idea that maybe you're not, and if thats the case I'm proud for you.I;m not trying to just pile it on you.I do have to say that,some of the things a landman could get blamed for are the oil companies issue,not the landman.Now we cut to the chase,If you think that there aren't under handed people in your business please shake yourself.Now if you are a professional with scruples or without,would you make the effort to contact someone who already had a memorandom of lease on file? probably not,that being said wether you pay them or not who else is gonna try to lease them,Viola you have your answer. On to contract law,all I can tell you is spend a couple dollars(just trying to be nice its way way more than that) then you'll be shaking your head at how it really works.This is why I Know you can really llimit your downside and just hemmoraging money by hiring an independent proffesiional that works for you before hand.Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you going to court is a crap shoot hopefully he tells you before you get to far into your back pocket.Just to make it plain,contract law in an oil and gas lease is not exactly what you think.I started out wanting to tell you,You should get out more,but if you're doing honest business, frankly I dont want you getting out more.If you are a mineral owner reading this, heed my advice if you can afford it at all hire some professional help on the front side of your deal,a good mineral manager or attorney will make his salary plus(usually plus a bunch)you make your own luck folks...TK
Mr. Quincy, I enjoy the banter you and R W have.Its just entertainment for me.I've been looking at the forum for at least a few months before joiming.I would and will hold my little brothers feet to the fire over telling a story.I can tell you many things he says, that you appear to shake your head at actually happen.The whole truth is between us collectively we have not been paid on a lease.I have a memorandom of lease recorded in Mckenzie county that has never been recorded.No consideration ever paid.just like Paul Harvey would say heres the rest of the story,Only I'm not going to tell it.I really hope you dont understand the concept of being crooked or underhanded and from some of your answers I really lean to the idea that maybe you're not, and if thats the case I'm proud for you.I;m not trying to just pile it on you.I do have to say that,some of the things a landman could get blamed for are the oil companies issue,not the landman.Now we cut to the chase,If you think that there aren't under handed people in your business please shake yourself.Now if you are a professional with scruples or without,would you make the effort to contact someone who already had a memorandom of lease on file? probably not,that being said wether you pay them or not who else is gonna try to lease them,Viola you have your answer. On to contract law,all I can tell you is spend a couple dollars(just trying to be nice its way way more than that) on an O&G contract case then you'll be shaking your head at how it really works.This is why I Know you can really llimit your downside and just hemmoraging money by hiring an independent proffesiional that works for you before hand.Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you going to court is a crap shoot hopefully he tells you before you get to far into your back pocket.Just to make it plain,contract law in an oil and gas lease is not exactly what you think.I started out wanting to tell you,You should get out more,but if you're doing honest business, frankly I dont want you getting out more.If you are a mineral owner reading this, heed my advice if you can afford it at all hire some professional help on the front side of your deal,a good mineral manager or attorney will make his salary plus(usually plus a bunch)you make your own luck folks...TK
I dont quite get, posting here,it looks like I have duplicate posts and I apologize,I'll swallow my pride and ask how its done and hopefully it wont happen again...TK