what are they adding to the entire thread ? zero ( actually a lot of hot air) stay away from the thread. you might stick your foot in your mouth
I know that there are commentors on this thread who have tons of experience in parts of the oilfield that are way way more dangerous than the average rig floor. to make demeaning comments about them without knowing anything about their background is childish
There is a proper etiquette to a drilling operation. as a geologist I do not think about entering the rig floor without an invite or permission from the driller.
there is also a proper etiquette about being on someones land, ignore that in my neighborhood and you could have rough time. some people in the industry think that because they have a lease they can do anything they want to on some place where the owners have been there for several generations or more. drillers and operators come and go. landowners may stay forever. Here in Texas we have a lot of savvy landowners, best to stay on their good side. We had a lease in Wharton co where one of the family was a petroleum lawyer. Not unusual for folks to be dealing with the 3rd or 4th generation to lease minerals. It is far better if everyone has a helpful attitude
There is no denying there are many scenarios and reasons why someone would want that in a lease or agreement. I am just saying operators are paranoid on third party liability issues. They have agreements or have made representations to insurance companies that they will not allow guests on the rig site. I went to a rig on some of our minerals once. I was told in no uncertain terms to leave immediately and was not allowed to take photos. If you can get it in the agreement, great, but expect a lot of pushback.
Well, after reading all these responses, I must not know what I am talking about. So here are specifics:
I am a McMullen County surface and mineral owner.
Have leases with 4 different operators
Over all of the leases we are on our 19th well.
Always been allowed access to my satisfaction.
All the company folks treated us with respect.
Gate guards knew who we were
Got a safety brief from the company man every time.
Maybe the key was 48 frozen snickers bars I left in an ice chest for the hands.
I would be in favor of oilfield etiquette classes. Maybe also, on site counseling for oil field workers. After watching the "reality tv" series, Black Gold, it seemed like many of those young oil field workers had a lot of inner demons that they needed to exorcise. That might raise the price of gas though.
I would also support sending every girl child down to Georgia to learn to smile. :)
Mr. Quincy I believe watches too much TV. He has insulted me and just about everybody else "foolish" enough to work in the oilfield.
An example of oilfield etiquette would be the two that Mr. Laguanaroy have just given whereby a mineral owner would never be told to leave a location and would be treated respectfully. If I get a call from the gate guard there is a mineral owner wishing excess I will go meet him (them) bring them down to the location and regardless of liability fears if they want to look around, I am going to show them around, including the rig floor. They are entitled. That is the Texas way. Pushing back on something so basic as excess by a mineral owner will almost always lead to getting pushed way back down the road by the mineral owner. Mr. Quincy, you don't respect people who work in the oilfield, I would ask why you are on a mineral forum but I don't much care. Happy motoring, sir.
Andy, howzit, mate?
Mr. Laguanaroy; bless, you sir. You took frozen Snicker bars to the hands on your location. I am overwhelmed. It is a great thing to own minerals and to get those minerals developed, often at great cost and great risk. Clearly you appreciate that and the men that see it through. I respect that a great deal, sir.
Maybe we should end this discussion on a more accurate note. It's not that I said outright that people were foolish to work in the oilfield. I said it seemed foolhardy to me personally to make false analogies about the dangers involved. The statistics are there. Rig accidents are commonplace. "Walking to the mailbox and getting hit by a snowplow?" Yeah, sure. You see that almost every day.
I grew up in the oil field and the rig floor is a dangerous place. The operator is spending $10,000 an hour to drill the well and they do not need everyone that has a piece of the lease, coming in for a tour. I don’t see how actually going onto the drill site, much less, the rig floor, is going to add any value, unless you are a petroleum geologist. Rather than fighting over this issue, spend the money to get the best O&G lawyer you can and have him/her negotiate the highest bonus and production percentage that is possible. In the end, it all about the money in your pocket.
It is amazing that the joint operating agreement specifically gives 100% access to a 1% (or less) investor.
However...
The royalty owner who owned, before signing a lease, 100% of the minerals is refused access based on endless excuses - usually on their on land. Put it in your lease "to protect yourself"!
I still can't figure out why they need to show up at the rig? To make sure it's turning to the right? To bring the hands candy bars? That was very thoughtful.
This debate has really exceeded the definition of dumbness. There is nobody "fighting" over anything except you folks who consider yourselves experts because of the internet and because of your need to offer advise to people because you consider yourself "experts." The initial post was from a man who was interested in the drilling process. He wanted access to the right floor. He wants to witness it first hand. It is his right to ask. They are his minerals being drilled for. If you folks are afraid of all that horrific danger out there, stay home. Quit trying to put the heebie jeebies into this guy because you are afraid. Some folks want to see how the world works, not just google it. Life is not always just about...money.
Mike and Robert are spot on! I will try to make it clear and concise.
I signed a lease with an operator, we both have responsibilities as defined by a legal agreement. In my case access was a clause in a binding contract. The operator contracts with a drilling company for a set rate. If I show up and I am treated with disrespect, obnoxious, or unprofessional behavior, I will become a real pain for the operator.
If I owned a drilling contractor, I would assure my folks were always respectful of anyone that visited and was granted access.
Mr. Alexander and Mr. Quincy, if you feel that strongly you should inform your employer that you would like to review the operator’s lease to ensure no visitors are allowed. That might save me a couple of candy bars for that trip.
How about putting a playground next to the rig so mineral owners can bring their kids too?
What are your responsibilities as defined by a legal agreement, other playing candy man?
Stay out of their way. If it's in your lease, they don't have any choice, but I'm sure they wish that you would just drop off the treats at the front gate, and get the hell away.
Work related accidents on the rig floor have actually declined greatly over the years due to automation. Hands don't throw a lot of spinning chains anymore like we did in the old days. Driller consoles, top drives and iron roughnecks have removed a lot of the danger from working on a floor. I resent deeply the implication that a man has to be stupid to do that kind of dangerous work. Roughnecks I believe are very proud of the work that they do. They work very hard. They provide for their families and they contribute to society and to the energy future of our country.
I think some of the internet cowboys here don't quite grasp the notion of "access to the rig floor." It does not mean you have the right to go up there and skate board. It means if you ask, and the time is right, and if you are supervised, you have a right to go up there on the floor and to stand back and watch. You are not interfering and you are not putting yourself in danger. In the dog house you can say hey to these men, shake their hand and thank them for the work they do. Trust me, that means a lot to them.
Lastly, I think there are two distinct types of mineral owners, if you even are a mineral owner when you offer all this free legal advise to others. One type of mineral owner bought those minerals and has no emotional attachment to them whatsoever. Those minerals are just a means of making money, nothing more; they don't care about the drilling/ completion process, the risks, the engineering, etc.; its just about the check they get.
The other kind of mineral owner is deeply tied to it's mineral ownership thru the land. In Texas, for instance, land is king. It is worked and toiled over, it likely has been in your family for generations; you might have inherited the mineral interest you own thru your grandfather who worked and toiled over the land. Minerals and land are one in the same unless severed. In Texas nobody tells us what to do with our land and we are not denied access to it; ever. No mineral lease does that, I assure you. Those type of mineral owners are attached to their minerals because the land means something to them. So they are interested. They care. I own land, that is the way I feel about the minerals under it. As an oil operator I would never deny any mineral owner access to a location or a rig floor. I have taken entire families up to watch, including kids. It is my honor to do so.
Drillers work for Operators. Operators do what ever it takes to get a lease from the Mineral owner. If the mineral owner insisted that all drillers wear 3 cornered hats while on his place then the operator would be finding a driller who had 3 cornered hats. I know of a lot of highly prospective areas that are on trend with historic fields with lots of production where there have never been any test wells drilled. When I ask one of my older friends about those areas they almost always know about them and they usually say " that is the old so and so ranch, you could never get a lease out there"
I never meant for this to be a discussion on safety. I was merely asking if anyone with knowledge in North Dakota could speak to the issue of Working Interest Mineral Owners not gaining access to the operations at any point, but in this case, the rig floor. As for those who do not see what value a mineral owner can add to the drilling process - it does not matter. They are the asset of that person/entity and should be managed in a way the owner sees fit. In fact, an operator does not add value to the mineral rights. Only a prudent, successful operator does. I would not hand cash over to a financial advisor if they told me that I was not allowed access to financial statements, detailed trade information, micro/macro market outlooks, strategies to combat certain economic situations, etc. Therefore, to know if an operator is prudent and successful, I would like as much information as I can get my hands on. In any market, knowledge is power. That is why I posted on this board, to gain knowledge.
Mr. Quincy - Of the many people you claim to have helped on this forum, I can honestly say that I was not one of them.
Thank you for those who did reach out and add pertinent information. It has already gone to good use. Other than that, I believe this discussion has run its course.
I thought stupido meant snickers in Spanish. Maybe I was mistaken.
I worked on a rig once. There was never a shortage of stories told in between connections, or maybe it was because I worked the graveyard tour, or whatever it was called. It was said that less busy work was required then, so I guess there was more time for b.s. Some of the stories were too gruesome to even repeat here. Some were funny. One I heard was that an entire crew quit because a surface owner was upset that some oil had leaked on to his rocks. The crew was told to go get some soap and water, and go clean his rocks. I heard they quit and moved on to other rigs on down the road.
I just read a stat online post 2000. It was between 2002 and 2007. 538 were killed on rigs. It was a U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Stat.
More recently, a young guy who saw his best friend killed on a rig, decided to do something of a positive or affirmative nature. Rather than being in denial over the inherent dangers of working on a drilling rig, he formed an organization called NO MORE HURT, in an effort to educate and promote better and safer conditions on drilling rigs, where accidents and deaths frequently occur.
This is a fascinating thread. I am just getting introduced to the upstream, having spent my career in Supply, Refining, and Marketing. Our family just found that we inherited some mineral rights and I would like to gain a better understanding.
Is it true that the safety policies, procedures, and practices at a drilling site are not covered by federal, state and/or local regulations, and therefore do not exist? In a refinery, OSHA has extensive rules governing safety, to include training, access, and escorts required for any non-employee. Nothing like that exists in field upstream operations?
I agree with you, Mr. Quincy, this perpetual rant you are on is indeed absurd.
I also agree with you that the oil business can sometimes be a dangerous place to work. My industry as endured a number of product price "collapses" over the past 30 years that rendered the oil and gas workplace very unstable and not a very attractive place for young men and women wanting to build a career on. In 2005 the average age of mid-level management in my industry was 53 years old. Around that time 33,000 kids took the BAR exam in the United States and 189 kids graduated with petroleum engineering degrees. Over hundred of them went back home overseas after graduating to serve their country. When this unconventional tight oil play began there was no labor to run the rigs that needed to be run to stay on the shale treadmill. Wages went to 25 dollars an hour for a floor hand on a drilling rig and men rushed to fill those jobs knowing nothing about working around big iron. There are accidents that occur on drilling rigs, bad ones. It is the nature of the work. That new work force is maturing and getting safer. A lot of oilfield related deaths that you so callously like to mention all the time have little to do with drilling rigs and a lot to do with vacuum truck drivers killing themselves on highways at 2 in the morning, or tired, overworked frac crews trying to get home at 4 in the morning. Whatever, it is a dangerous job.
My industry makes safety a number one priority and in the field, not sitting at a keyboard, every day, every tower change, starts with a safety meeting. The government is all over us all the time trying to make it a safer workplace. All public companies working the oil field these days have entire divisions dedicated to safety and workplace accidents.
During the time frame you mentioned in Texas there was, I am quite certain, the same number of deaths occur, or more, texting while driving on America's highways. I am not sure how many landmen were killed sitting at a keyboard all day, likely not very many. The latest tragedy you post is a blowout. A horrible accident. I am sure you share with me grief for those brave men and their families. They were doing a hard, difficult job to ensure the energy future of our country. Accidents will continue to happen and unfortunately men will die.
If you have a miracle solution to this problem, Mr. Quincy, by all means be an advocate, but a positive one. Fix the problem. Otherwise, if I were you I would not so much as get any where near a drilling rig. The courthouse is much safer.
I have a simple question. What is the TRIR of the classification covering the operation of oil rigs, compared to say, the TRIR for petroleum and petrochemical refineries? Anyone know the answer. Just curious.
Dave Quincy said:
Your first sentence is absurd and also non-sensical. I was quoting Associated Press articles while using quotation marks. None of it was a personal rant. I can understand why you are upset. You were proven wrong. You made an earlier statement that it is safer than it used to be around rigs. The statistics as shown in the A.P. articles don't support that. Don't get mad at me. Contact The Associated Press and ask them to stop making you look like a fool. Figures can't lie, but liars can figure.
Mike said:
I agree with you, Mr. Quincy, this perpetual rant you are on is indeed absurd.
I also agree with you that the oil business can sometimes be a dangerous place to work. My industry as endured a number of product price "collapses" over the past 30 years that rendered the oil and gas workplace very unstable and not a very attractive place for young men and women wanting to build a career on. In 2005 the average age of mid-level management in my industry was 53 years old. Around that time 33,000 kids took the BAR exam in the United States and 189 kids graduated with petroleum engineering degrees. Over hundred of them went back home overseas after graduating to serve their country. When this unconventional tight oil play began there was no labor to run the rigs that needed to be run to stay on the shale treadmill. Wages went to 25 dollars an hour for a floor hand on a drilling rig and men rushed to fill those jobs knowing nothing about working around big iron. There are accidents that occur on drilling rigs, bad ones. It is the nature of the work. That new work force is maturing and getting safer. A lot of oilfield related deaths that you so callously like to mention all the time have little to do with drilling rigs and a lot to do with vacuum truck drivers killing themselves on highways at 2 in the morning, or tired, overworked frac crews trying to get home at 4 in the morning. Whatever, it is a dangerous job.
My industry makes safety a number one priority and in the field, not sitting at a keyboard, every day, every tower change, starts with a safety meeting. The government is all over us all the time trying to make it a safer workplace. All public companies working the oil field these days have entire divisions dedicated to safety and workplace accidents.
During the time frame you mentioned in Texas there was, I am quite certain, the same number of deaths occur, or more, texting while driving on America's highways. I am not sure how many landmen were killed sitting at a keyboard all day, likely not very many. The latest tragedy you post is a blowout. A horrible accident. I am sure you share with me grief for those brave men and their families. They were doing a hard, difficult job to ensure the energy future of our country. Accidents will continue to happen and unfortunately men will die.
If you have a miracle solution to this problem, Mr. Quincy, by all means be an advocate, but a positive one. Fix the problem. Otherwise, if I were you I would not so much as get any where near a drilling rig. The courthouse is much safer.